Difference between revisions of "IRC log 4/4/07"

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Session Start (Adempiere:#adempiere-team): Wed Apr 04 07:47:53 2007

[07:47] *** Initial topic: BDC meeting. Agenda: 1. What causes loss of contributors. 2. How do we foster healthy consulting businesses. 3. How to encourage more to contribute. 4. ...

[07:47] *** #adempiere-team: jsSolutions kontro Ramiro DeathMeat AFalcone

[07:47] *** #adempiere-team was created on Fri Mar 30 07:08:55 2007.

[07:49] *** vpj-cd has joined #adempiere-team.

[07:49] *** Ramiro has changed the topic on channel #adempiere-team to WEB GUI meeting.

[07:52] Ramiro: hi all

[07:52] Ramiro: is there an agenda?

[07:54] jsSolutions: hi ramiro

[07:54] jsSolutions: 1. identify risks with posterita approach

2.  How to collaborate to extend it rapidly?

3.  Is it worth the effort to prototype other architectures?

[07:55] vpj-cd: Hi

[07:55] *** Ramiro has changed the topic on channel #adempiere-team to WEB GUI meeting. Agenda 1. identify risks with posterita approach.

[07:56] vpj-cd: we can start?

[07:56] *** Ramiro has changed the topic on channel #adempiere-team to WEB GUI meeting. Agenda 1. identify risks with posterita approach 2. How to collaborate to extend it rapidly?.

[07:56] *** Ramiro has changed the topic on channel #adempiere-team to WEB GUI meeting. Agenda 1. identify risks with posterita approach 2. How to collaborate to extend it rapidly? 3. Is it worth the effort to prototype other architectures?.

[07:58] Ramiro: no Victor, it is 3 minutes before the scheduled timing

[07:58] Ramiro: i am kidding

[07:58] vpj-cd: haaa ok

[07:58] Ramiro: :)

[07:58] Ramiro: lets start

[07:58] Ramiro: it seems that there is not much interest in a web gui

[07:59] Ramiro: jsSolutions: are you chairing?

[08:00] jsSolutions: Ramiro, yes

[08:00] Ramiro: ok

[08:00] Ramiro: over to you....

[08:00] vpj-cd: yes is very importnat

[08:00] jsSolutions: i'd like to wait a couple minutes, there are some confirmed attendees not here

[08:00] Ramiro: only 6 people showed up

[08:00] vpj-cd: with web gui are will have all necesseary to adempiere

[08:02] * AFalcone is back (gone 01:23:13)

[08:02] *** Ramiro_ has joined #adempiere-team.

[08:03] Ramiro_: correction: only 7 people showed up

[08:03] Ramiro_: 2 Ramiro's .... :)

[08:03] jsSolutions: :-)

[08:04] AFalcone: Hi guys

[08:04] vpj-cd: is important that the ppl posteria is here

[08:04] vpj-cd: Ã‘-(

[08:04] AFalcone: hmmm I see, 2 Ramiros's.. so, you are very interesting with the issue

[08:05] Ramiro_: :)

[08:06] *** vclark has joined #adempiere-team.

[08:06] jsSolutions: hi vince

[08:06] vclark: Hey Joel

[08:06] jsSolutions: we are waiting a couple minutes

[08:07] jsSolutions: hengsin and posterita are not here yet

[08:07] vclark: No worries. I have plenty of time.

[08:07] vclark: I'm in NY sitting in a training class.

[08:07] jsSolutions: :-D

[08:07] vclark: So I am multi-tasking.

[08:09] *** red1 has joined #adempiere-team.

[08:09] Ramiro_: giving or receiving training ?

[08:11] *** Ramiro has signed off IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).

[08:11] red1: good evening from here to all

[08:11] jsSolutions: hello red1

[08:12] AFalcone: Hi red1

[08:12] *** fredtsang has joined #adempiere-team.

[08:12] fredtsang: hi all

[08:12] kontro: Hello red1. Where is here this time.

[08:12] jsSolutions: hi fred

[08:12] fredtsang: I was in an hour before

[08:12] fredtsang: I was looking at the GMT

[08:13] red1: just arrived home

[08:13] red1: dozed off in the commuter train...

[08:13] red1: her is 2300 hrs

[08:13] jsSolutions: well, I guess we can start

[08:13] vpj-cd: ok

[08:13] jsSolutions: hengsin asked for meeting

[08:13] jsSolutions: but is not here...

[08:13] red1: hmm

[08:14] jsSolutions: first point: identify risks with the posterita poc

[08:14] red1: i tot u asked for meeting?

[08:14] AFalcone: hi fred

[08:14] fredtsang: hi alejandro

[08:14] fredtsang: I will not have much time though

[08:14] fredtsang: because I got the time wrong

[08:14] vpj-cd: I only have some issues to use zk

[08:14] red1: anyway topics are good to go

[08:14] red1: pls do not repeat points as we can have this on record

[08:15] jsSolutions: posterita 'planted the flag'

[08:15] jsSolutions: with the rollout of the POC

[08:15] fredtsang: ok we have something online

[08:15] jsSolutions: it looks nice

[08:15] fredtsang: (Link: http://tamak.dyndns.org:8085/webui/)http://tamak.dyndns.org:8085/webui/

[08:15] fredtsang: it might not be on for long

[08:15] fredtsang: but you can try it out

[08:16] vpj-cd: frsit issue you gui is regular, if we need a web gui it have reallity expectacular Ã‘-)

[08:16] jsSolutions: well, i think the attention has been on the framework

[08:16] jsSolutions: the look n feel can be anything

[08:16] jsSolutions: correct, fred?

[08:17] jsSolutions: it's ajax?

[08:17] fredtsang: Yes, we can alter the look and feel

[08:17] fredtsang: The main person behind it is not here

[08:17] fredtsang: but this is what I understand

[08:18] fredtsang: basically, in terms of coding

[08:18] vpj-cd: ok next pont zk use a technology that have not adoption

[08:18] fredtsang: it is nearly identical to the swing ui

[08:18] vpj-cd: is Xul

[08:18] fredtsang: it's zk

[08:18] fredtsang: but we code in java

[08:18] fredtsang: we don't use Xul at all

[08:18] vpj-cd: yes th ecode is java

[08:18] vpj-cd: but exist many framework in java

[08:19] vpj-cd: echo2, gwt, laszlo , zk etc

[08:19] kontro: jsf

[08:19] vpj-cd: yes jsf

[08:19] jsSolutions: well, there are lots of ideas, but we have zk

[08:19] jsSolutions: so i'd rather focus on risks with zk

[08:19] jsSolutions: later we will talk about whether to pursue others

[08:20] vpj-cd: I think the risk is no exist a enterpsise importnat that are back the zk

[08:20] vpj-cd: only commnunity

[08:20] jsSolutions: ha ha, like adempiere!

[08:20] vpj-cd: but I see not a workin important and plactical in zk

[08:20] vpj-cd: a pplication the size as adempiere

[08:20] vpj-cd: expert posteria

[08:21] vpj-cd: ?-)

[08:21] vpj-cd: :-)

[08:21] jsSolutions: risks with zk:

[08:21] jsSolutions: 1. uses xul

2. community backed

[08:21] vclark: Sorry guys, I stepped away for a moment. Let me catch up on the thread and then I'll jump in.

[08:22] kontro: Somebody is willing to do the work. Do we have any reason to force him stop - what ever tools he uses ?

[08:22] fredtsang: I can't really comment on the choice of technology

[08:22] fredtsang: the best guy to defend the use of zk would be Ashley

[08:22] fredtsang: but he studied

[08:22] fredtsang: echo 2

[08:22] fredtsang: gwt

[08:22] Ramiro_: fredtsang: is this ajax Fred?

[08:22] fredtsang: JSF

[08:22] fredtsang: yes it is

[08:22] fredtsang: and struts

[08:22] fredtsang: and he opted for zk

[08:22] Ramiro_: i am very very impressed

[08:22] red1: joel, u call these risks?

[08:22] fredtsang: simply because there is a fundamental

[08:23] fredtsang: process in zk

[08:23] red1: lets focus on risks :D

[08:23] DeathMeat: struts + tiles?

[08:23] fredtsang: that makes everything easy

[08:23] fredtsang: basically

[08:23] fredtsang: this is copy and paste

[08:23] fredtsang: of the swing ui

[08:23] fredtsang: dead easy

[08:23] red1: like the words - dead easy

[08:23] fredtsang: the major breakthrough is in a single class

[08:23] jsSolutions: is there a lot of gui code?

[08:23] Ramiro_: multitab web gui, wow!!!

[08:23] fredtsang: like i said

[08:23] red1: and that someone (ashley, posterita) has proven it!

[08:24] fredtsang: it's The adempiere code

[08:24] fredtsang: just renaming

[08:24] vpj-cd: ok Ramiro the risk is we have a techologic nobody use

[08:24] fredtsang: ComboBox by ZComboBox

[08:24] fredtsang: and keep everything the same

[08:24] fredtsang: well there are some other complexities

[08:24] fredtsang: but basically this is how this is done

[08:24] fredtsang: just copy paste

[08:24] fredtsang: and renaming

[08:24] fredtsang: with a touch of genius from Ashley

[08:24] Ramiro_: so we can get support from the zk team because they will be very much interested!!!

[08:24] vpj-cd: yes also in echo2 or gwt

[08:24] Ramiro_: i call that an opportunity

[08:24] vpj-cd: all have same componets

[08:25] kontro: Since there is no good middle layer interface any solution is only temporary - so best option is to take easiest road and it seems to be zk.

[08:25] fredtsang: yes but they lack

[08:25] fredtsang: the threading

[08:25] fredtsang: part

[08:25] fredtsang: and this is why zk was chosen

[08:25] fredtsang: don't ask me on this

[08:25] fredtsang: Ashley will explain that better

[08:25] red1: u saying that the threading part is problem with others besides zk?

[08:25] vpj-cd: I think the main desition in this subjent is what technology will are in future

[08:26] fredtsang: I think there can be many technologies

[08:26] red1: victor, how far future?

[08:26] red1: i think zk is nice for now

[08:26] red1: if it involves dead easy works

[08:26] Ramiro_: fredtsang: is this example complete, i mean is it a complete web ADempiere GUI?

[08:26] vpj-cd: the future in gwt , openlazslo , or seeams

[08:26] jsSolutions: future may be main decision, but not immediate topic :-)

[08:26] fredtsang: no it is not complete

[08:27] fredtsang: this is a work in progress

[08:27] jsSolutions: fred, has your team identified any risks?

[08:27] jsSolutions: to this approach

[08:27] Ramiro_: how much effort still needed for an alpha complete UI?

[08:27] fredtsang: There was risk

[08:27] kontro: One question how many of us is going to help ashley if he chooses zk and is there any more helping hands if he chooses some other framework ?

[08:27] fredtsang: but this POC reduces all risk

[08:27] fredtsang: we can save

[08:27] fredtsang: we can change the display

[08:27] fredtsang: we have callout working

[08:27] fredtsang: so we need to implement grid

[08:27] fredtsang: some search

[08:28] fredtsang: but I don't think right now there will be stumbling blocks

[08:28] red1: has anyone else able to learn to do this too besides Ashley?

[08:28] kontro: If all the work is going to be done by ashley then we can not interfere - I think.

[08:28] jsSolutions: ok, so for now risks:

[08:28] vclark: Can we discuss some of the "under the hood" stuff?

[08:28] jsSolutions: 1. uses xul

2. community backed

[08:28] jsSolutions: vince- sure if looking for risks

[08:29] Ramiro_: risk 1 is completely mitigated if we use java, right?

[08:29] vclark: yes, risks.

[08:29] fredtsang: yes

[08:29] fredtsang: we don't use xul

[08:29] red1: fred, are u able to learn this ZK easily yourself? Learning risks here

[08:29] fredtsang: I have someone on it

[08:29] fredtsang: who is learning it

[08:29] fredtsang: I don't have time :)

[08:29] fredtsang: we are guiding him

[08:29] vclark: What is the interface to the AD? The existing servlets, or has this been rewritten?

[08:30] Ramiro_: fredtsang: is ZK browser agnostic?

[08:30] fredtsang: yes i think it is. have to check on zk

[08:30] fredtsang: zk is very popular

[08:30] fredtsang: among community

[08:30] fredtsang: among top 5 projects

[08:30] fredtsang: together with Adempiere

[08:31] fredtsang: healthy community!

[08:31] red1: yes, thats what Ashley said

[08:31] red1: it caught Ash's attention to try it!

[08:31] *** Ramiro_ is now known as Ramiro.

[08:31] jsSolutions: fred, to vince's question: What is the interface to the AD?

[08:31] jsSolutions: is that the copy/paste?

[08:31] fredtsang: yes that's copy paste

[08:31] fredtsang: it should behave exactly the way

[08:31] fredtsang: Swing behaves

[08:32] fredtsang: because we copy and paste

[08:32] fredtsang: and rename

[08:32] fredtsang: :-)

[08:32] jsSolutions: sorry for non-techie question, why do you have to copy if its the same?

[08:32] jsSolutions: have to make some additions?

[08:33] Ramiro: so the only risk that i am seeing is that this is community based, not much of a risk if you ask me

[08:33] fredtsang: Must use a different ui component

[08:34] fredtsang: If adempiere was flexible

[08:34] fredtsang: we could have just use a different implementation

[08:34] fredtsang: but right now

[08:34] fredtsang: we don't intend to make it flexible

[08:34] fredtsang: just make it work!

[08:34] jsSolutions: ok, vince, more tech questions?

[08:34] vclark: I think this discussion needs two major topics to be addressed.

[08:34] Ramiro: as much as the swing ui works anyway

[08:34] vclark: 1) MVC framework

[08:34] vclark: 2) UI components

[08:35] vclark: Most of the discussion up to this point seems to be focused on what Ajax toolkit to use.

[08:35] vpj-cd: the componet should simila ad swing

[08:35] vclark: I want to know what we're putting under the hood!!

[08:35] kontro: Read the source man!

[08:35] kontro: :)

[08:36] DeathMeat: hehe

[08:36] fredtsang: yeah

[08:36] fredtsang: we can send the source code

[08:36] fredtsang: anytime

[08:36] DeathMeat: some things can't be expressed with words

[08:36] vclark: Which source, the Posterita source?

[08:36] kontro: I meant zk source...

[08:36] fredtsang: well the web ui part

[08:36] fredtsang: no the current posterita code is a different framework

[08:37] fredtsang: Guys I will really have to go, I have a dinner and I planned the meeting to be at 6pm

[08:37] fredtsang: can we reschedule that meeting ?

[08:37] jsSolutions: ok, main thing we need you for, is point two

[08:37] jsSolutions: how to collaborate

[08:37] DeathMeat: a dinner... mhh you make me hungry fred

[08:37] *** Donald has joined #adempiere-team.

[08:38] jsSolutions: are we close to being able to put the code up

[08:38] fredtsang: well we can send the code to contribution

[08:38] vclark: Hey Don.

[08:38] fredtsang: and those interested can just pick it up

[08:38] fredtsang: and contribute

[08:38] fredtsang: we have no problem

[08:38] jsSolutions: ok, good. have a nice dinner

[08:38] jsSolutions: we'll talk about the rest :-)

[08:39] fredtsang: Ashley will be joining the chat later on

[08:39] fredtsang: so any techie questions you can ask him

[08:39] red1: fred, if there are some core changes to ADempiere, do u think it affect this Web UI?

[08:39] kontro: fredtsang, Ask ashley if it would be possible to write some script that parses swing classes to zk classes so that he does not have to copy paste.

[08:40] kontro: Using sed for example.

[08:40] fredtsang: ok I will mention that to him

[08:40] red1: thanks fred

[08:40] fredtsang: thanks everyone

[08:40] jsSolutions: bye fred

[08:40] red1: bon apetite!

[08:40] jsSolutions: ok, point 2: how to collaborate

[08:40] Ramiro: if ashley can write a quick and dirty turoial in the wiki on how to generate the web ui from swing it will address point 2....

[08:40] kontro: Also ask him to check if javaassist could be used to manipulate classes at load time.

[08:41] Ramiro: turoial=tutorial

[08:41] jsSolutions: 1. they coontribute code

[08:41] jsSolutions: 2. write tutorial

[08:42] jsSolutions: 3. interested parties jump in

[08:42] jsSolutions: ?

[08:43] jsSolutions: going, going....

[08:43] kontro: 4. Everybody live their lives happily ever after.

[08:43] jsSolutions: :-D

[08:44] Ramiro: this is really a good jumpstart into a web gui

[08:44] jsSolutions: ok, point 3- other prototypes

[08:44] Ramiro: i am impressed

[08:44] Ramiro: it is fast

[08:44] Donald: I think we should at least perform due diligence on what are the other possibilities.

[08:44] Ramiro: easy to generate from swing

[08:45] Ramiro: the guys from posterita did the due diligence

[08:45] kontro: It is important at this stage that existing code can be used.

[08:45] Donald: Do we have a list of requirements or parameters that a new UI technology needs to meet

[08:45] Ramiro: and even if it just a short term future solution i believe is worth it

[08:45] kontro: And it solves the database connection security issue.

[08:45] Ramiro: for a very reasonable effort

[08:46] Ramiro: we can have an alpha gui in less than a month or so

[08:46] *** vpj-cd has signed off IRC (Remote closed the connection).

[08:46] jsSolutions: so if someone feels strongly in another approach, they can proto like ashley did

[08:47] jsSolutions: otherwise, everyone concentrate on alpha gui?

[08:47] *** vpj-cd has joined #adempiere-team.

[08:47] jsSolutions: that gives room to victor to pursue

[08:48] vpj-cd: ok

[08:48] vpj-cd: I think we need

[08:49] vpj-cd: a good platafortm

[08:49] vpj-cd: no only a good frame work

[08:50] Ramiro: i agree joel

[08:50] jsSolutions: ok. 1. if someone feels strongly in another approach, they can do their own proto

2. otherwise, everyone concentrate on alpha gui using ajax/zk?

[08:51] Ramiro: this is the official direction but we can add more if any interested party prototypes ans demonstrates value

[08:51] Ramiro: 1. yes

[08:51] kontro: Survival of the fittest.

[08:51] Ramiro: 2. yes

[08:51] vclark: I am trying to understand how this UI is being generated. This is being done from the classes that generate the Swing client?

[08:52] kontro: Yes I think that mainly imports have to changed.

[08:53] *** kontro has left #adempiere-team.

[08:54] jsSolutions: vince, yes, the copy the swing code

[08:54] jsSolutions: it generates from the AD

[08:54] jsSolutions: in the same way

[08:54] jsSolutions: i think we can conclude the formal meeting

[08:54] vclark: So swing classes are copied, imports are changed, and the new imports are classes that translate from thick client components to HTML?

[08:55] jsSolutions: maybe we can schedule time with ashley to explain in detail the technical stuff

[08:55] vpj-cd: yes or ony generate a xml

[08:55] vpj-cd: zk use xml

[08:55] vpj-cd: and

[08:55] vpj-cd: openlazlo also

[08:55] vpj-cd: the unique use same form is echo2 and gwt

[08:56] vclark: Yes, I would like to understand what is happening under the hood.

[08:56] vpj-cd: zk and openlazslo are very similar

[08:56] red1: i agree joel that a proto is the best POC.. so now its proven, the million dollar question is answered

[08:57] vpj-cd: a use xul and other use another language

[08:57] jsSolutions: victor, can you explain what is 'a good platform'?

[08:57] vpj-cd: but I am agree

[08:57] vpj-cd: the best way to show the avantage

[08:57] vpj-cd: is

[08:57] vpj-cd: a proptotype

[08:57] red1: i second joel's call for concluding this discussion

[08:58] red1: i think a prototype has been requested all the time... its moot now to speculate in lieu of one. :)

[08:58] jsSolutions: ok, i'll post the summary

[08:59] red1: remember, we take the line of Extreme Programming... go read it up

[09:00] red1: my congrats to Posterita for making a fast study, working proto, and shown a live online demo, with download movie too!

[09:02] vpj-cd: yes

[09:02] vpj-cd: is exelent

[09:03] vpj-cd: I only no like zk :-)

[09:03] vpj-cd: as plataform

[09:03] vpj-cd: but I need build

[09:03] vpj-cd: a prototipe also

[09:03] vpj-cd: :-)

[09:04] vclark: Victor, what would be your preference? I've been working on a JSF prototype.

[09:04] vpj-cd: I prefered lazslo or gwt

[09:04] vpj-cd: I think this framework have more future

[09:05] vclark: Those are Ajax toolkits, correct?

[09:05] vclark: Or is there more to them.

[09:08] Donald: Is this a payed development of the gui or is everyone contributing

[09:10] Ramiro: it has been a posterita work until now

[09:10] Ramiro: not paid

[09:11] Donald: but moving forward how are we getting to the deliverable in one month?

[09:11] Ramiro: (Link: http://tamak.dyndns.org:8085/webui/)http://tamak.dyndns.org:8085/webui/

[09:11] Ramiro: you can visit the POC there

[09:11] Ramiro: going forward

[09:11] Ramiro: posterita will write a tutorial to be posted in the wiki

[09:12] Ramiro: everyone will collaborate based on the tutorial

[09:12] Ramiro: but this is just a copy and paste exercise

[09:12] Ramiro: no development is required

[09:14] vpj-cd: but as any project open source

[09:14] vpj-cd: exist some implemment

[09:14] vpj-cd: and la best is will are to future :-)

[09:14] vpj-cd: this case ano POC

[09:14] vpj-cd: ano now

[09:14] Ramiro: ???

[09:14] Ramiro: what do you mean Victor?

[09:15] Ramiro: i do not understand

[09:15] Ramiro: may be in spanish...

[09:15] vpj-cd: we need more prototype and see what is best

[09:16] vpj-cd: perdon ramiro

[09:17] vpj-cd: mi didea es que podemos presentar varios prototipos

[09:17] vpj-cd: y como en el open source

[09:17] vpj-cd: el mas aceptable preblalece

[09:17] Ramiro: de acuerdo

[09:17] vpj-cd: pero en principio

[09:17] Ramiro: did you visit the site Donald ?

[09:18] Donald: yes and it looks great!

[09:18] *** fredtsang_ has joined #adempiere-team.

[09:18] vpj-cd: el prototipo es exelente

[09:18] Donald: How is the Zoom functionality etc going to work in ajax?

[09:19] Ramiro: interesting question

[09:19] Ramiro: ashley from posterita should respond that

[09:19] Donald: The horizontal navigation through the app is important

[09:20] Ramiro: however the web gui is genrated using the same java code as the swing ui

[09:20] vpj-cd: el prototipo es exelente

[09:20] Ramiro: so i do not think is a problem

[09:20] Ramiro: that makes the effort very reasonable

[09:20] Donald: I really like what has been done

[09:21] Ramiro: it is just a copy and paste project

[09:21] Donald: I would like to see the ability to combine grid and form views

[09:21] Donald: like header on sales order with line items below

[09:21] Ramiro: yes, it will be done, fred mentioned it

[09:22] Donald: this was a performance issue in the swing

[09:22] Ramiro: i liked the multitab display

[09:22] Ramiro: very nice

[09:31] *** AshleyRamdass has joined #adempiere-team.

[09:32] AshleyRamdass: hi everybody

[09:32] AshleyRamdass: seems that the meeting is already over

[09:33] red1: well we re still here..

[09:33] red1: :D

[09:33] red1: testing out your online demo version

[09:33] red1: great stuff

[09:33] AshleyRamdass: thanks

[09:33] AshleyRamdass: sorry could not make it

[09:33] AshleyRamdass: running running running

[09:33] red1: its ok... your work preceded u

[09:33] AshleyRamdass: but still could not

[09:34] red1: take it easy.. u outdoing everyone!

[09:34] AshleyRamdass: thanks

[09:34] red1: u did what was most important.. so no urgency

[09:34] AshleyRamdass: ok

[09:34] AshleyRamdass: can I have the logs

[09:34] red1: i think Joel posted or is posting them.. in the wiki.. u sure to get it soon

[09:35] AshleyRamdass: thanks

[09:35] red1: basically some questions about how u did it and what are the risks to changes and other apps

[09:35] *** fredtsang has signed off IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).

[09:35] red1: vince asked about under the hood

[09:35] red1: victor wanted to know if its a good choice versus GWT or some Laszo

[09:36] AshleyRamdass: well, it's pure RAD

[09:36] red1: i m concerned about how fast to teach another idiot like me how to do what u did

[09:36] AshleyRamdass: the real challenge was about the Env class

[09:37] AshleyRamdass: but now have greater challenge, that's why I donated the codes to posterita

[09:37] AshleyRamdass: allow someone to continue what I started

[09:37] *** vpj-cd has signed off IRC ().

[09:37] red1: thats the right and only thing to do

[09:38] AshleyRamdass: yes, I hope that an alpha gets ready very soon

[09:38] * red1 reading ZK site now...

[09:39] red1: its time to market ..

[09:39] red1: and make it good enough... need not be perfect

[09:39] red1: no need to look beyond 6 mths i say

[09:39] red1: Fred said it is dead easy

[09:39] AshleyRamdass: yes

[09:40] red1: short curve is an important killer

[09:40] red1: Kontro was asking if u can use JavaAssist to parse so that no copy/paste work is needed

[09:41] AshleyRamdass: Investigated on that, but did not go in depth

[09:41] red1: well.. bother kontro then..

[09:41] AshleyRamdass: have been reading all the JSR's he proposed

[09:41] AshleyRamdass: he's approach is very good

[09:42] AshleyRamdass: to make ADempiere a real Enterprise Software

[09:42] AshleyRamdass: scalable and flexible

[09:42] red1: well there is bound to be oohs and aahs

[09:43] red1: but this AHA! is great enuf

[09:43] red1: in bazaar not much theory.. alot of trading..

[09:43] red1: i seeing the Ajax demo.. very impressive howtos

[09:43] red1: u click on a feature snip... then u click on its source... highly associative learning here

[09:44] AshleyRamdass: yes, a great framework they have developed

[09:44] AshleyRamdass: the best part is that they are continuously growing

[09:44] AshleyRamdass: always in top 7 in sourceforge

[09:46] red1: the greatest thingy since i met Compiere 4 yrs ago

[09:46] red1: the demo userguide is so comprehensive and no brainer to go thru

[09:47] red1: u shuld write to them and tell them what u did with demo link

[09:47] red1: if u find some thing to improve them, u send it there... get yourself mentioned

[09:47] red1: u grow that way fast

[09:48] red1: you become guru ;)

[09:48] AshleyRamdass: yes will surely contribute also to ZK in way

[09:50] AshleyRamdass: still, could not get the logs

[09:50] AshleyRamdass: what has been said for question 3

[09:50] AshleyRamdass: will there be prototype on other architectures???

[09:51] red1: 3 meaning other technos?

[09:51] AshleyRamdass: yes

[09:51] AshleyRamdass: on my side can get that on Echo, JSF, ...

[09:52] red1: victor asked for other options.. but i think what is important is ready to go with no risks

[09:52] AshleyRamdass: in fact inspired from my novice experience on JSF to get the ZK working

[09:52] red1: can get more agile than that

[09:53] red1: the main thing is u get something to work, that says a lot.. u and others can build more from there

[09:53] red1: options often change

[09:53] AshleyRamdass: ok

[09:53] red1: unavoidable.. and we learn all the time

[09:53] red1: but as for now... we got a solid implemented proto

[09:54] red1: remember when Compiere first came out and with version 244 it was lousy

[09:54] red1: many parts broke down

[09:54] red1: but it hit top ten

[09:54] red1: publish early, update often

[09:54] AshleyRamdass: sorry but never knew 244

[09:54] red1: your best chance to get others to improve it when u publish fast

[09:54] AshleyRamdass: first version, 252d

[09:55] red1: haha.. just telling u some history u need not witness ;D

[09:55] red1: we use to cry

[09:55] AshleyRamdass: ok

[09:56] red1: ok take it easy.. dont burn out now

[09:56] red1: i m going to bed!

[09:56] AshleyRamdass: thanks a lot

[09:56] AshleyRamdass: good night

[09:56] *** red1 has signed off IRC ("bybye").

[09:56] Ramiro: AshleyRamdass: still there?

[09:57] AshleyRamdass: yes

[09:59] Ramiro: we were wondering AshleyRamdass

[09:59] Ramiro: if you could write a quick and dirty tutorial on how to generate the web ui using the java code in swing

[09:59] Ramiro: fred said it was literally a copy and paste effort

[10:00] AshleyRamdass: yes, managed to get that to the copy and paste

[10:00] AshleyRamdass: but initially that was not my idea

[10:00] AshleyRamdass: the way I wanted that to work

[10:00] AshleyRamdass: but in the end, why re-invent the wheel

[10:01] AshleyRamdass: The biggest challenge is the Env.getCtx() problem

[10:01] AshleyRamdass: about 1300 references

[10:02] Ramiro: we can revisit the decision later but for short term future this is perfect

[10:02] Ramiro: if you invest a bit of time in the tutorial we will get the help of many

[10:03] AshleyRamdass: yes, will try to get that done

[10:03] AshleyRamdass: I know it's difficult to understand how it is working

[10:03] Ramiro: great!

[10:03] AshleyRamdass: when you will look at the ZK site, you only see scripting

[10:03] AshleyRamdass: well, I'm getting in the back door

[10:03] Ramiro: i am not a technical person but i have a technical question

[10:04] Ramiro: probably is an idiotic question

[10:04] Ramiro: but i am sure you can respond it

[10:04] AshleyRamdass: go ahead

[10:04] Ramiro: ZK generates a web gui that uses ajax, right?

[10:04] AshleyRamdass: yes

[10:05] Ramiro: ok

[10:05] Ramiro: my understanding of ajax is that some parts of the application stay in the web server and some in the client where the browser runs, right?

[10:06] AshleyRamdass: nearly that, Ajax actually changes the html codes in the browser dynamically

[10:07] Ramiro: ok

[10:07] AshleyRamdass: That is without rebuilding the whole html structure

[10:07] AshleyRamdass: thus, the page is never refreshed and calls are executed without the user knowing (somehow)

[10:07] Ramiro: but who decides what part is executed locally and what parts are executed in the web server? is it done automatically by ZK?

[10:08] AshleyRamdass: nopes, that's one of the problem with ZK

[10:08] AshleyRamdass: it tries to mimic to much Desktop application

[10:08] *** vpj-cd has joined #adempiere-team.

[10:08] AshleyRamdass: but can also get the components to do operations locally or asynchronously

[10:09] Ramiro: ok, so a bit of fiddling will need to be done in order to fine tune the web gui, right?

[10:09] AshleyRamdass: yes

[10:09] Ramiro: ok

[10:10] Ramiro: is ZK generated code browser agnostic?

[10:10] AshleyRamdass: sorry, but not familiar with agnostic

[10:10] Ramiro: compatible with all browsers?

[10:10] AshleyRamdass: yes

[10:10] Ramiro: IE, FF, Opera?

[10:11] Ramiro: ok

[10:11] AshleyRamdass: it's one of their aims

[10:11] Ramiro: can i use the web gui in a PDA device as well?

[10:11] AshleyRamdass: well they are planning for mobile also

[10:12] Ramiro: so it is upto ZK to create the compatibility for those usages, right?

[10:12] AshleyRamdass: yes

[10:12] AshleyRamdass: but have not tested on PDA, but I think it should work fine

[10:12] Ramiro: so i believe we need to create a formal communication channel with the ZK guys....

[10:13] AshleyRamdass: yes, I think that for the best interest of both projects

[10:13] Ramiro: have you communicated to those guys at all?

[10:13] AshleyRamdass: not so far

[10:13] Ramiro: ok

[10:13] AshleyRamdass: but thinking to do so

[10:13] Ramiro: will discuss it in the council and generate a note to them

[10:14] AshleyRamdass: thanks

[10:14] Ramiro: congratulations AshleyRamdass

[10:14] Ramiro: you are now an Open Source Hero

[10:14] AshleyRamdass: thank you Ramiro

[10:14] Ramiro: :)

[10:14] AshleyRamdass: at least not for time being

[10:14] AshleyRamdass: preparing other things

[10:15] Ramiro: you have proven an important direction for ADempiere

[10:15] AshleyRamdass: yes, but I appreciate much Kontro effort

[10:15] AshleyRamdass: and believe in what he thinks

[10:15] AshleyRamdass: the technology stack he is proposing is great

[10:16] AshleyRamdass: will try to contribute in that direction in the future

[10:17] AshleyRamdass: that's my vision on how ADempiere should be in the future

[10:22] Ramiro: yes

[10:22] Ramiro: but i try to apply the salami technic

[10:23] Ramiro: i eat salami one slice at the time

[10:24] AshleyRamdass: yes of course

[10:24] AshleyRamdass: smooth transition

[10:28] *** CarlosRuiz has joined #adempiere-team.

[10:30] *** hengsin has joined #adempiere-team.

[10:31] hengsin: hi all

[10:33] Ramiro: hi hengsin

[10:33] hengsin: hi Ramiro, I guess the meeting is over ? was having line problem earlier

[10:34] Ramiro: yes it is but AshleyRamdass is still here and has responded assorted questions

[10:34] hengsin: do u have a log of the meetings that you can share with me ?

[10:35] Ramiro: let me check

[10:35] AshleyRamdass: Ramiro, I am also interested in having that

[10:37] Ramiro: got it

[10:37] Ramiro: emails please?

[10:37] hengsin: hengsin@gmail.com

[10:37] AshleyRamdass: agramdass@gmail.com

[10:40] Ramiro: gone

[10:40] hengsin: thanks, Ramiro.

[10:41] AshleyRamdass: thank you, Ramiro

[10:42] *** CarlosRuiz has signed off IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).

[10:58] hengsin: hi Ashley

[10:59] hengsin: hi AshleyRamdass, are u still there ?

[11:05] AshleyRamdass: yes Hengsin, I am here

[11:07] hengsin: I got a question on your preference on zk over echo2 , AFAIK, echo2 also have similar api with swing.

[11:07] AshleyRamdass: very good one

[11:07] AshleyRamdass: in fact wanted to do that on Echo2

[11:07] AshleyRamdass: but the scripting support in ZK is very important

[11:08] AshleyRamdass: will enable custom UI

[11:08] AshleyRamdass: and also community support on both technos

[11:09] hengsin: so, zk also provide swing like api which make porting easy ?

[11:09] AshleyRamdass: yes

[11:10] AshleyRamdass: though not cited directly on the site

[11:10] AshleyRamdass: you have all the API's at disposal

[11:10] hengsin: I'm very interested to help on this effort, so the question is when your can upload the code to svn ?

[11:11] AshleyRamdass: thanks a lot, I have donated the codes to posterita

[11:11] AshleyRamdass: and to what I know, that should be soon in the contribution folder

[11:12] AshleyRamdass: I have one question

[11:12] hengsin: cool, a document on the status of the port, issue face and remaining obstacle will help a lot.

[11:13] AshleyRamdass: yes will get that done shortly

[11:13] AshleyRamdass: concerning 2 pack, who is maintaining the codes???

[11:13] hengsin: carlos is the primary maintainer, I can help too.

[11:14] AshleyRamdass: Is there any document on what has been done and what need to be done???

[11:14] AshleyRamdass: have a guy that need to investigate on that on my side

[11:14] hengsin: search the outstanding bug report for 2 pack then you have a rough idea

[11:15] AshleyRamdass: ok, thanks a lot

[11:16] hengsin: afair, there are 2 main issue with 2pack - 1. the code is in need of some serious refactoring, 2. Export of initial data needed by module - some ID management issue.

[11:17] hengsin: for the zk port, I think it is also a good opportunity to clean up and refactor the swing client.

[11:17] AshleyRamdass: yes of course

[11:18] AshleyRamdass: have been working on that for some time now, extending the swing is difficult as it is currently

[11:18] hengsin: if you are writing the document for the zk port experience, please highlight that also - area where the swing code that needs clean up or refactoring to make the zk port easier. chances are that will also make porting to other future client easier.

[11:19] AshleyRamdass: ok

[11:20] hengsin: yes, the code now is a bit messy, but we can improve that as we go along. I have try a swt port before but stop because I think the current swing code need some massive restructuring.

[11:21] AshleyRamdass: yes you are right, functionalities have been added without actually cleaning up

[11:22] AshleyRamdass: thus making control flows messy

[11:24] hengsin: a port to Eclipse RCP and RAP platform will be very interesting, maybe my next pet project if I can find some time :)

[11:25] AshleyRamdass: yeah, that will be also very nice

[11:25] AshleyRamdass: but I think that web is getting more priority

[11:28] hengsin: the interesting part is with the eclipse rcp and rap platform, it is possible to build a web and desktop client using a single code base. of course, there is also the amazing osgi architecture.

[11:30] AshleyRamdass: had a look at osgi sometime back, really promising but could not go really in depth

[11:33] AshleyRamdass: nice to have chat with you Hengsin, time for me to leave

[11:33] hengsin: eclipse rcp for the web - (Link: http://www.eclipse.org/rap/)http://www.eclipse.org/rap/

[11:33] hengsin: ok, talk 2 u next time, looking forward for your zk code!

[11:34] AshleyRamdass: going to take a bath, then reading on the JSR's and then go to bed

[11:34] AshleyRamdass: yes, cooperation is the key to success

[11:34] AshleyRamdass: chat next time, bye

[11:35] *** AshleyRamdass has signed off IRC ("ChatZilla 0.9.78 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]").

[11:35] *** hengsin has left #adempiere-team.

[11:36] vpj-cd: AshleyRamdass youare of posteria?

[12:31] *** Ramiro has left #adempiere-team.

[12:39] *** vclark has signed off IRC (Remote closed the connection).

[13:46] *** fredtsang_ has signed off IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]").

Session Close (#adempiere-team): Wed Apr 04 15:17:30 2007

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@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 Session Start (Adempiere:#adempiere-team): Wed Apr 04 07:47:53 2007
 [07:47] *** Initial topic: BDC meeting. Agenda: 1. What causes loss of contributors. 2. How do we foster healthy consulting businesses. 3. How to encourage more to contribute. 4. ...
-[07:47] *** #adempiere-team: jsSolutions kontro Ramiro DeathMeat AFalcone
+[07:47] *** #adempiere-team: jsSolutions kontro Ramiro DeathMeat AFalcone
 [07:47] *** #adempiere-team was created on Fri Mar 30 07:08:55 2007.
 [07:49] *** vpj-cd has joined #adempiere-team.
 [07:49] *** Ramiro has changed the topic on channel #adempiere-team to WEB GUI meeting.
 [07:52] Ramiro: hi all
 [07:52] Ramiro: is there an agenda?
 [07:54] jsSolutions: hi ramiro
-[07:54] jsSolutions: 1.  identify risks with posterita approach
-.  How to collaborate to extend it rapidly?
+[07:54] jsSolutions: 1.  identify risks with posterita approach
-.  Is it worth the effort to prototype other architectures?
+.  How to collaborate to extend it rapidly?
+.  Is it worth the effort to prototype other architectures?
 [07:55] vpj-cd: Hi
 [07:55] *** Ramiro has changed the topic on channel #adempiere-team to WEB GUI meeting. Agenda 1. identify risks with posterita approach.
 [07:56] vpj-cd: we can start?
 [07:56] *** Ramiro has changed the topic on channel #adempiere-team to WEB GUI meeting. Agenda 1. identify risks with posterita approach 2. How to collaborate to extend it rapidly?.
 [07:56] *** Ramiro has changed the topic on channel #adempiere-team to WEB GUI meeting. Agenda 1. identify risks with posterita approach 2. How to collaborate to extend it rapidly? 3. Is it worth the effort to prototype other architectures?.
 [07:58] Ramiro: no Victor, it is 3 minutes before the scheduled timing
 [07:58] Ramiro: i am kidding
 [07:58] vpj-cd: haaa ok
 [07:58] Ramiro: :)
 [07:58] Ramiro: lets start
 [07:58] Ramiro: it seems that there is not much interest in a web gui
 [07:59] Ramiro: jsSolutions: are you chairing?
 [08:00] jsSolutions: Ramiro, yes
 [08:00] Ramiro: ok
 [08:00] Ramiro: over to you....
 [08:00] vpj-cd: yes is very importnat
 [08:00] jsSolutions: i'd like to wait a couple minutes, there are some confirmed attendees not here
 [08:00] Ramiro: only 6 people showed up
 [08:00] vpj-cd: with web gui are will have all necesseary to adempiere
 [08:02] * AFalcone is back (gone 01:23:13)
 [08:02] *** Ramiro_ has joined #adempiere-team.
 [08:03] Ramiro_: correction: only 7 people showed up
 [08:03] Ramiro_: 2 Ramiro's .... :)
 [08:03] jsSolutions: :-)
 [08:04] AFalcone: Hi guys
 [08:04] vpj-cd: is important that the ppl posteria is here
 [08:04] vpj-cd: Ã‘-(
 [08:04] AFalcone: hmmm I see, 2 Ramiros's.. so, you are very interesting with the issue
 [08:05] Ramiro_: :)
 [08:06] *** vclark has joined #adempiere-team.
 [08:06] jsSolutions: hi vince
 [08:06] vclark: Hey Joel
 [08:06] jsSolutions: we are waiting a couple minutes
 [08:07] jsSolutions: hengsin and posterita are not here yet
 [08:07] vclark: No worries. I have plenty of time.
 [08:07] vclark: I'm in NY sitting in a training class.
 [08:07] jsSolutions: :-D
 [08:07] vclark: So I am multi-tasking.
 [08:09] *** red1 has joined #adempiere-team.
 [08:09] Ramiro_: giving or receiving training ?
 [08:11] *** Ramiro has signed off IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
 [08:11] red1: good evening from here to all
 [08:11] jsSolutions: hello red1
 [08:12] AFalcone: Hi red1
 [08:12] *** fredtsang has joined #adempiere-team.
 [08:12] fredtsang: hi all
 [08:12] kontro: Hello red1. Where is here this time.
 [08:12] jsSolutions: hi fred
 [08:12] fredtsang: I was in an hour before
 [08:12] fredtsang: I was looking at the GMT
 [08:13] red1: just arrived home
 [08:13] red1: dozed off in the commuter train...
 [08:13] red1: her is 2300 hrs
 [08:13] jsSolutions: well, I guess we can start
 [08:13] vpj-cd: ok
-[08:13] jsSolutions: hengsin asked for meeting
+[08:13] jsSolutions: hengsin asked for meeting
 [08:13] jsSolutions: but is not here...
 [08:13] red1: hmm
 [08:14] jsSolutions: first point:  identify risks with the posterita poc
 [08:14] red1: i tot u asked for meeting?
 [08:14] AFalcone: hi fred
 [08:14] fredtsang: hi alejandro
 [08:14] fredtsang: I will not have much time though
 [08:14] fredtsang: because I got the time wrong
 [08:14] vpj-cd: I only have some issues to use zk
 [08:14] red1: anyway topics are good to go
 [08:14] red1: pls do not repeat points as we can have this on record
 [08:15] jsSolutions: posterita 'planted the flag'
 [08:15] jsSolutions: with the rollout of the POC
 [08:15] fredtsang: ok we have something online
 [08:15] jsSolutions: it looks nice
 [08:15] fredtsang: (Link: http://tamak.dyndns.org:8085/webui/)http://tamak.dyndns.org:8085/webui/
 [08:15] fredtsang: it might not be on for long
 [08:15] fredtsang: but you can try it out
-[08:16] vpj-cd: frsit issue you gui is regular, if we need a web gui it have reallity expectacular Ã‘-)
+[08:16] vpj-cd: frsit issue you gui is regular, if we need a web gui it have reallity expectacular Ã‘-)
 [08:16] jsSolutions: well, i think the attention has been on the framework
 [08:16] jsSolutions: the look n feel can be anything
 [08:16] jsSolutions: correct, fred?
 [08:17] jsSolutions: it's ajax?
 [08:17] fredtsang: Yes, we can alter the look and feel
 [08:17] fredtsang: The main person behind it is not here
 [08:17] fredtsang: but this is what I understand
 [08:18] fredtsang: basically, in terms of coding
 [08:18] vpj-cd: ok next pont zk use a technology that have not adoption
 [08:18] fredtsang: it is nearly identical to the swing ui
 [08:18] vpj-cd: is Xul
 [08:18] fredtsang: it's zk
 [08:18] fredtsang: but we code in java
 [08:18] fredtsang: we don't use Xul at all
 [08:18] vpj-cd: yes th ecode is java
 [08:18] vpj-cd: but exist many framework in java
 [08:19] vpj-cd: echo2, gwt, laszlo , zk etc
 [08:19] kontro: jsf
 [08:19] vpj-cd: yes jsf
 [08:19] jsSolutions: well, there are lots of ideas, but we have zk
 [08:19] jsSolutions: so i'd rather focus on risks with zk
 [08:19] jsSolutions: later we will talk about whether to pursue others
 [08:20] vpj-cd: I think the risk is no exist a enterpsise importnat that are back the zk
 [08:20] vpj-cd: only commnunity
 [08:20] jsSolutions: ha ha, like adempiere!
 [08:20] vpj-cd: but I see not a workin important and plactical in zk
 [08:20] vpj-cd: a pplication the size as adempiere
-[08:20] vpj-cd: expert posteria
+[08:20] vpj-cd: expert posteria
 [08:21] vpj-cd: ?-)
 [08:21] vpj-cd: :-)
 [08:21] jsSolutions: risks with zk:
 [08:21] jsSolutions: 1. uses xul
 . community backed
 [08:21] vclark: Sorry guys, I stepped away for a moment. Let me catch up on the thread and then I'll jump in.
 [08:22] kontro: Somebody is willing to do the work. Do we have any reason to force him stop - what ever tools he uses ?
 [08:22] fredtsang: I can't really comment on the choice of technology
 [08:22] fredtsang: the best guy to defend the use of zk would be Ashley
 [08:22] fredtsang: but he studied
 [08:22] fredtsang: echo 2
 [08:22] fredtsang: gwt
 [08:22] Ramiro_: fredtsang: is this ajax Fred?
 [08:22] fredtsang: JSF
 [08:22] fredtsang: yes it is
 [08:22] fredtsang: and struts
 [08:22] fredtsang: and he opted for zk
 [08:22] Ramiro_: i am very very impressed
 [08:22] red1: joel, u call these risks?
 [08:22] fredtsang: simply because there is a fundamental
 [08:23] fredtsang: process in zk
 [08:23] red1: lets focus on risks :D
 [08:23] DeathMeat: struts + tiles?
 [08:23] fredtsang: that makes everything easy
 [08:23] fredtsang: basically
 [08:23] fredtsang: this is copy and paste
 [08:23] fredtsang: of the swing ui
 [08:23] fredtsang: dead easy
 [08:23] red1: like the words - dead easy
 [08:23] fredtsang: the major breakthrough is in a single class
 [08:23] jsSolutions: is there a lot of gui code?
 [08:23] Ramiro_: multitab web gui, wow!!!
 [08:23] fredtsang: like i said
 [08:23] red1: and that someone (ashley, posterita) has proven it!
 [08:24] fredtsang: it's The adempiere code
 [08:24] fredtsang: just renaming
 [08:24] vpj-cd: ok Ramiro the risk is we have a techologic nobody use
 [08:24] fredtsang: ComboBox by ZComboBox
 [08:24] fredtsang: and keep everything the same
 [08:24] fredtsang: well there are some other complexities
 [08:24] fredtsang: but basically this is how this is done
 [08:24] fredtsang: just copy paste
 [08:24] fredtsang: and renaming
 [08:24] fredtsang: with a touch of genius from Ashley
 [08:24] Ramiro_: so we can get support from the zk team because they will be very much interested!!!
 [08:24] vpj-cd: yes also in echo2 or gwt
 [08:24] Ramiro_: i call that an opportunity
 [08:24] vpj-cd: all have same componets
 [08:25] kontro: Since there is no good middle layer interface any solution is only temporary - so best option is to take easiest road and it seems to be zk.
 [08:25] fredtsang: yes but they lack
 [08:25] fredtsang: the threading
 [08:25] fredtsang: part
 [08:25] fredtsang: and this is why zk was chosen
 [08:25] fredtsang: don't ask me on this
 [08:25] fredtsang: Ashley will explain that better
 [08:25] red1: u saying that the threading part is problem with others besides zk?
 [08:25] vpj-cd: I think the main desition in this subjent is what technology will are in future
 [08:26] fredtsang: I think there can be many technologies
 [08:26] red1: victor, how far future?
 [08:26] red1: i think zk is nice for now
 [08:26] red1: if it involves dead easy works
 [08:26] Ramiro_: fredtsang: is this example complete, i mean is it a complete web ADempiere GUI?
 [08:26] vpj-cd: the future in gwt , openlazslo , or seeams
 [08:26] jsSolutions: future  may be main decision, but not immediate topic :-)
 [08:26] fredtsang: no it is not complete
 [08:27] fredtsang: this is a work in progress
 [08:27] jsSolutions: fred, has your team identified any risks?
 [08:27] jsSolutions: to this approach
 [08:27] Ramiro_: how much effort still needed for an alpha complete UI?
 [08:27] fredtsang: There was risk
 [08:27] kontro: One question how many of us is going to help ashley if he chooses zk and is there any more helping hands if he chooses some other framework ?
 [08:27] fredtsang: but this POC reduces all risk
 [08:27] fredtsang: we can save
 [08:27] fredtsang: we can change the display
 [08:27] fredtsang: we have callout working
 [08:27] fredtsang: so we need to implement grid
 [08:27] fredtsang: some search
 [08:28] fredtsang: but I don't think right now there will be stumbling blocks
 [08:28] red1: has anyone else able to learn to do this too besides Ashley?
 [08:28] kontro: If all the work is going to be done by ashley then we can not interfere - I think.
 [08:28] jsSolutions: ok, so for now risks:
 [08:28] vclark: Can we discuss some of the "under the hood" stuff?
 [08:28] jsSolutions: 1. uses xul
 . community backed
 [08:28] jsSolutions: vince- sure if looking for risks
 [08:29] Ramiro_: risk 1 is completely mitigated if we use java, right?
 [08:29] vclark: yes, risks.
-[08:29] fredtsang: yes
+[08:29] fredtsang: yes
 [08:29] fredtsang: we don't use xul
 [08:29] red1: fred, are u able to learn this ZK easily yourself? Learning risks here
 [08:29] fredtsang: I have someone on it
 [08:29] fredtsang: who is learning it
 [08:29] fredtsang: I don't have time :)
 [08:29] fredtsang: we are guiding him
 [08:29] vclark: What is the interface to the AD? The existing servlets, or has this been rewritten?
 [08:30] Ramiro_: fredtsang: is ZK browser agnostic?
 [08:30] fredtsang: yes i think it is. have to check on zk
 [08:30] fredtsang: zk is very popular
 [08:30] fredtsang: among community
 [08:30] fredtsang: among top 5 projects
 [08:30] fredtsang: together with Adempiere
 [08:31] fredtsang: healthy community!
 [08:31] red1: yes, thats what Ashley said
 [08:31] red1: it caught Ash's attention to try it!
 [08:31] *** Ramiro_ is now known as Ramiro.
-[08:31] jsSolutions: fred, to vince's question: What is the interface to the AD?
+[08:31] jsSolutions: fred, to vince's question: What is the interface to the AD?
 [08:31] jsSolutions: is that the copy/paste?
 [08:31] fredtsang: yes that's copy paste
 [08:31] fredtsang: it should behave exactly the way
 [08:31] fredtsang: Swing behaves
 [08:32] fredtsang: because we copy and paste
 [08:32] fredtsang: and rename
 [08:32] fredtsang: :-)
 [08:32] jsSolutions: sorry for non-techie question, why do you have to copy if its the same?
 [08:32] jsSolutions: have to make some additions?
 [08:33] Ramiro: so the only risk that i am seeing is that this is community based, not much of a risk if you ask me
 [08:33] fredtsang: Must use a different ui component
 [08:34] fredtsang: If adempiere was flexible
 [08:34] fredtsang: we could have just use a different implementation
 [08:34] fredtsang: but right now
 [08:34] fredtsang: we don't intend to make it flexible
 [08:34] fredtsang: just make it work!
 [08:34] jsSolutions: ok, vince, more tech questions?
 [08:34] vclark: I think this discussion needs two major topics to be addressed.
 [08:34] Ramiro: as much as the swing ui works anyway
 [08:34] vclark: 1) MVC framework
 [08:34] vclark: 2) UI components
 [08:35] vclark: Most of the discussion up to this point seems to be focused on what Ajax toolkit to use.
 [08:35] vpj-cd: the componet should simila ad swing
 [08:35] vclark: I want to know what we're putting under the hood!!
 [08:35] kontro: Read the source man!
 [08:35] kontro: :)
 [08:36] DeathMeat: hehe
 [08:36] fredtsang: yeah
 [08:36] fredtsang: we can send the source code
 [08:36] fredtsang: anytime
 [08:36] DeathMeat: some things can't be expressed with words
 [08:36] vclark: Which source, the Posterita source?
 [08:36] kontro: I meant zk source...
 [08:36] fredtsang: well the web ui part
 [08:36] fredtsang: no the current posterita code is a different framework
 [08:37] fredtsang: Guys I will really have to go, I have a dinner and I planned the meeting to be at 6pm
 [08:37] fredtsang: can we reschedule that meeting ?
 [08:37] jsSolutions: ok, main thing we need you for, is point two
 [08:37] jsSolutions: how to collaborate
 [08:37] DeathMeat: a dinner... mhh you make me hungry fred
 [08:37] *** Donald has joined #adempiere-team.
 [08:38] jsSolutions: are we close to being able to put the code up
 [08:38] fredtsang: well we can send the code to contribution
 [08:38] vclark: Hey Don.
 [08:38] fredtsang: and those interested can just pick it up
 [08:38] fredtsang: and contribute
 [08:38] fredtsang: we have no problem
 [08:38] jsSolutions: ok, good.  have a nice dinner
 [08:38] jsSolutions: we'll talk about the rest :-)
 [08:39] fredtsang: Ashley will be joining the chat later on
 [08:39] fredtsang: so any techie questions you can ask him
 [08:39] red1: fred, if there are some core changes to ADempiere, do u think it affect this Web UI?
 [08:39] kontro: fredtsang, Ask ashley if it would be possible to write some script that parses swing classes to zk classes so that he does not have to copy paste.
 [08:40] kontro: Using sed for example.
 [08:40] fredtsang: ok I will mention that to him
 [08:40] red1: thanks fred
 [08:40] fredtsang: thanks everyone
 [08:40] jsSolutions: bye fred
 [08:40] red1: bon apetite!
 [08:40] jsSolutions: ok, point 2:  how to collaborate
 [08:40] Ramiro: if ashley can write a quick and dirty turoial in the wiki on how to generate the web ui from swing it will address point 2....
 [08:40] kontro: Also ask him to check if javaassist could be used to manipulate classes at load time.
 [08:41] Ramiro: turoial=tutorial
 [08:41] jsSolutions: 1. they coontribute code
 [08:41] jsSolutions: 2. write tutorial
 [08:42] jsSolutions: 3.   interested parties jump in
 [08:42] jsSolutions: ?
 [08:43] jsSolutions: going, going....
 [08:43] kontro: 4. Everybody live their lives happily ever after.
 [08:43] jsSolutions: :-D
 [08:44] Ramiro: this is really a good jumpstart into a web gui
 [08:44] jsSolutions: ok, point 3- other prototypes
 [08:44] Ramiro: i am impressed
 [08:44] Ramiro: it is fast
-[08:44] Donald: I think we should at least perform due diligence on what are the other possibilities.
+[08:44] Donald: I think we should at least perform due diligence on what are the other possibilities.
 [08:44] Ramiro: easy to generate from swing
 [08:45] Ramiro: the guys from posterita did the due diligence
 [08:45] kontro: It is important at this stage that existing code can be used.
 [08:45] Donald: Do we have a list of requirements or parameters that a new UI technology needs to meet
 [08:45] Ramiro: and even if it just a short term future solution i believe is worth it
 [08:45] kontro: And it solves the database connection security issue.
 [08:45] Ramiro: for a very reasonable effort
 [08:46] Ramiro: we can have an alpha gui in less than a month or so
 [08:46] *** vpj-cd has signed off IRC (Remote closed the connection).
 [08:46] jsSolutions: so if someone feels strongly in another approach, they can proto like ashley did
 [08:47] jsSolutions: otherwise, everyone concentrate on alpha gui?
 [08:47] *** vpj-cd has joined #adempiere-team.
 [08:47] jsSolutions: that gives room to victor to pursue
 [08:48] vpj-cd: ok
 [08:48] vpj-cd: I think we need
 [08:49] vpj-cd: a good  platafortm
 [08:49] vpj-cd: no only a good frame work
 [08:50] Ramiro: i agree joel
 [08:50] jsSolutions: ok. 1.  if someone feels strongly in another approach, they can do their own proto
 . otherwise, everyone concentrate on alpha gui using ajax/zk?
 [08:51] Ramiro: this is the official direction but we can add more if any interested party prototypes ans demonstrates value
 [08:51] Ramiro: 1. yes
 [08:51] kontro: Survival of the fittest.
 [08:51] Ramiro: 2. yes
 [08:51] vclark: I am trying to understand how this UI is being generated. This is being done from the classes that generate the Swing client?
 [08:52] kontro: Yes I think that mainly imports have to changed.
 [08:53] *** kontro has left #adempiere-team.
 [08:54] jsSolutions: vince, yes, the copy the swing code
 [08:54] jsSolutions: it generates from the AD
 [08:54] jsSolutions: in the same way
 [08:54] jsSolutions: i think we can conclude the formal meeting
 [08:54] vclark: So swing classes are copied, imports are changed, and the new imports are classes that translate from thick client components to HTML?
 [08:55] jsSolutions: maybe we can schedule time with ashley to explain in detail the technical stuff
-[08:55] vpj-cd: yes or ony generate a xml
+[08:55] vpj-cd: yes or ony generate a xml
 [08:55] vpj-cd: zk use xml
 [08:55] vpj-cd: and
 [08:55] vpj-cd: openlazlo also
 [08:55] vpj-cd: the unique use same form is echo2 and gwt
-[08:56] vclark: Yes, I would like to understand what is happening under the hood.
+[08:56] vclark: Yes, I would like to understand what is happening under the hood.
 [08:56] vpj-cd: zk and openlazslo are very similar
 [08:56] red1: i agree joel that a proto is the best POC.. so now its proven, the million dollar question is answered
 [08:57] vpj-cd: a use xul and other use another language
 [08:57] jsSolutions: victor, can you explain what is 'a good  platform'?
 [08:57] vpj-cd: but I am agree
 [08:57] vpj-cd: the best way to show the avantage
 [08:57] vpj-cd: is
 [08:57] vpj-cd: a proptotype
 [08:57] red1: i second joel's call for concluding this discussion
 [08:58] red1: i think a prototype has been requested all the time... its moot now to speculate in lieu of one. :)
 [08:58] jsSolutions: ok, i'll post the summary
 [08:59] red1: remember, we take the line of Extreme Programming... go read it up
 [09:00] red1: my congrats to Posterita for making a fast study, working proto, and shown a live online demo, with download movie too!
 [09:02] vpj-cd: yes
 [09:02] vpj-cd: is exelent
 [09:03] vpj-cd: I only no like zk :-)
-[09:03] vpj-cd: as plataform
+[09:03] vpj-cd: as plataform
 [09:03] vpj-cd: but I need build
 [09:03] vpj-cd: a prototipe also
 [09:03] vpj-cd: :-)
 [09:04] vclark: Victor, what would be your preference? I've been working on a JSF prototype.
 [09:04] vpj-cd: I prefered lazslo or gwt
 [09:04] vpj-cd: I think this framework have more future
 [09:05] vclark: Those are Ajax toolkits, correct?
 [09:05] vclark: Or is there more to them.
 [09:08] Donald: Is this a payed development of the gui or is everyone contributing
 [09:10] Ramiro: it has been a posterita work until now
 [09:10] Ramiro: not paid
 [09:11] Donald: but moving forward how are we getting to the deliverable in one month?
 [09:11] Ramiro: (Link: http://tamak.dyndns.org:8085/webui/)http://tamak.dyndns.org:8085/webui/
 [09:11] Ramiro: you can visit the POC there
 [09:11] Ramiro: going forward
 [09:11] Ramiro: posterita will write a tutorial to be posted in the wiki
 [09:12] Ramiro: everyone will collaborate based on the tutorial
 [09:12] Ramiro: but this is just a copy and paste exercise
 [09:12] Ramiro: no development is required
 [09:14] vpj-cd: but as any project open source
 [09:14] vpj-cd: exist some implemment
 [09:14] vpj-cd: and la best is will are to future :-)
 [09:14] vpj-cd: this case ano POC
 [09:14] vpj-cd: ano now
 [09:14] Ramiro: ???
 [09:14] Ramiro: what do you mean Victor?
 [09:15] Ramiro: i do not understand
 [09:15] Ramiro: may be in spanish...
 [09:15] vpj-cd: we need more prototype and see what is best
 [09:16] vpj-cd: perdon ramiro
 [09:17] vpj-cd: mi didea es que podemos presentar varios prototipos
 [09:17] vpj-cd: y como en el open source
 [09:17] vpj-cd: el mas aceptable preblalece
 [09:17] Ramiro: de acuerdo
-[09:17] vpj-cd: pero en principio
+[09:17] vpj-cd: pero en principio
 [09:17] Ramiro: did you visit the site Donald ?
 [09:18] Donald: yes and it looks great!
 [09:18] *** fredtsang_ has joined #adempiere-team.
 [09:18] vpj-cd: el prototipo es exelente
 [09:18] Donald: How is the Zoom functionality etc going to work in ajax?
 [09:19] Ramiro: interesting question
 [09:19] Ramiro: ashley from posterita should respond that
 [09:19] Donald: The horizontal navigation through the app is important
 [09:20] Ramiro: however the web gui is genrated using the same java code as the swing ui
 [09:20] vpj-cd: el prototipo es exelente
 [09:20] Ramiro: so i do not think is a problem
 [09:20] Ramiro: that makes the effort very reasonable
 [09:20] Donald: I really like what has been done
 [09:21] Ramiro: it is just a copy and paste project
 [09:21] Donald: I would like to see the ability to combine grid and form views
 [09:21] Donald: like header on sales order with line items below
 [09:21] Ramiro: yes, it will be done, fred mentioned it
 [09:22] Donald: this was a performance issue in the swing
 [09:22] Ramiro: i liked the multitab display
 [09:22] Ramiro: very nice
 [09:31] *** AshleyRamdass has joined #adempiere-team.
 [09:32] AshleyRamdass: hi everybody
 [09:32] AshleyRamdass: seems that the meeting is already over
 [09:33] red1: well we re still here..
 [09:33] red1: :D
 [09:33] red1: testing out your online demo version
 [09:33] red1: great stuff
 [09:33] AshleyRamdass: thanks
 [09:33] AshleyRamdass: sorry could not make it
 [09:33] AshleyRamdass: running running running
 [09:33] red1: its ok... your work preceded u
 [09:33] AshleyRamdass: but still could not
 [09:34] red1: take it easy.. u outdoing everyone!
 [09:34] AshleyRamdass: thanks
-[09:34] red1: u did what was most important.. so no urgency
+[09:34] red1: u did what was most important.. so no urgency
 [09:34] AshleyRamdass: ok
 [09:34] AshleyRamdass: can I have the logs
 [09:34] red1: i think Joel posted or is posting them.. in the wiki.. u sure to get it soon
 [09:35] AshleyRamdass: thanks
 [09:35] red1: basically some questions about how u did it and what are the risks to changes and other apps
 [09:35] *** fredtsang has signed off IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
 [09:35] red1: vince asked about under the hood
 [09:35] red1: victor wanted to know if its a good choice versus GWT or some Laszo
 [09:36] AshleyRamdass: well, it's pure RAD
 [09:36] red1: i m concerned about how fast to teach another idiot like me how to do what u did
 [09:36] AshleyRamdass: the real challenge was about the Env class
 [09:37] AshleyRamdass: but now have greater challenge, that's why I donated the codes to posterita
 [09:37] AshleyRamdass: allow someone to continue what I started
 [09:37] *** vpj-cd has signed off IRC ().
 [09:37] red1: thats the right and only thing to do
 [09:38] AshleyRamdass: yes, I hope that an alpha gets ready very soon
 [09:38] * red1 reading ZK site now...
 [09:39] red1: its time to market ..
 [09:39] red1: and make it good enough... need not be perfect
 [09:39] red1: no need to look beyond 6 mths i say
 [09:39] red1: Fred said it is dead easy
 [09:39] AshleyRamdass: yes
 [09:40] red1: short curve is an important killer
 [09:40] red1: Kontro was asking if u can use JavaAssist to parse so that no copy/paste work is needed
 [09:41] AshleyRamdass: Investigated on that, but did not go in depth
 [09:41] red1: well.. bother kontro then..
 [09:41] AshleyRamdass: have been reading all the JSR's he proposed
 [09:41] AshleyRamdass: he's approach is very good
 [09:42] AshleyRamdass: to make ADempiere a real Enterprise Software
 [09:42] AshleyRamdass: scalable and flexible
 [09:42] red1: well there is bound to be oohs and aahs
 [09:43] red1: but this AHA! is great enuf
-[09:43] red1: in bazaar not much theory.. alot of trading..
+[09:43] red1: in bazaar not much theory.. alot of trading..
 [09:43] red1: i seeing the Ajax demo.. very impressive howtos
 [09:43] red1: u click on a feature snip... then u click on its source... highly associative learning here
 [09:44] AshleyRamdass: yes, a great framework they have developed
 [09:44] AshleyRamdass: the best part is that they are continuously growing
 [09:44] AshleyRamdass: always in top 7 in sourceforge
 [09:46] red1: the greatest thingy since i met Compiere 4 yrs ago
 [09:46] red1: the demo userguide is so comprehensive and no brainer to go thru
 [09:47] red1: u shuld write to them and tell them what u did with demo link
 [09:47] red1: if u find some thing to improve them, u send it there... get yourself mentioned
 [09:47] red1: u grow that way fast
 [09:48] red1: you become guru ;)
 [09:48] AshleyRamdass: yes will surely contribute also to ZK in way
 [09:50] AshleyRamdass: still, could not get the logs
 [09:50] AshleyRamdass: what has been said for question 3
 [09:50] AshleyRamdass: will there be prototype on other architectures???
 [09:51] red1: 3 meaning other technos?
 [09:51] AshleyRamdass: yes
 [09:51] AshleyRamdass: on my side can get that on Echo, JSF, ...
 [09:52] red1: victor asked for other options.. but i think what is important is ready to go with no risks
 [09:52] AshleyRamdass: in fact inspired from my novice experience on JSF to get the ZK working
 [09:52] red1: can get more agile than that
 [09:53] red1: the main thing is u get something to work, that says a lot.. u and others can build more from there
 [09:53] red1: options often change
 [09:53] AshleyRamdass: ok
 [09:53] red1: unavoidable.. and we learn all the time
 [09:53] red1: but as for now... we got a solid implemented proto
 [09:54] red1: remember when Compiere first came out and with version 244 it was lousy
 [09:54] red1: many parts broke down
 [09:54] red1: but it hit top ten
 [09:54] red1: publish early, update often
 [09:54] AshleyRamdass: sorry but never knew 244
 [09:54] red1: your best chance to get others to improve it when u publish fast
 [09:54] AshleyRamdass: first version, 252d
 [09:55] red1: haha.. just telling u some history u need not witness ;D
 [09:55] red1: we use to cry
 [09:55] AshleyRamdass: ok
 [09:56] red1: ok take it easy.. dont burn out now
 [09:56] red1: i m going to bed!
 [09:56] AshleyRamdass: thanks a lot
 [09:56] AshleyRamdass: good night
 [09:56] *** red1 has signed off IRC ("bybye").
 [09:56] Ramiro: AshleyRamdass: still there?
 [09:57] AshleyRamdass: yes
-[09:59] Ramiro: we were wondering AshleyRamdass
+[09:59] Ramiro: we were wondering AshleyRamdass
 [09:59] Ramiro: if you could write a quick and dirty tutorial on how to generate the web ui using the java code in swing
 [09:59] Ramiro: fred said it was literally a copy and paste effort
 [10:00] AshleyRamdass: yes, managed to get that to the copy and paste
 [10:00] AshleyRamdass: but initially that was not my idea
 [10:00] AshleyRamdass: the way I wanted that to work
 [10:00] AshleyRamdass: but in the end, why re-invent the wheel
 [10:01] AshleyRamdass: The biggest challenge is the Env.getCtx() problem
 [10:01] AshleyRamdass: about 1300 references
 [10:02] Ramiro: we can revisit the decision later but for short term future this is perfect
 [10:02] Ramiro: if you invest a bit of time in the tutorial we will get the help of many
 [10:03] AshleyRamdass: yes, will try to get that done
 [10:03] AshleyRamdass: I know it's difficult to understand how it is working
 [10:03] Ramiro: great!
 [10:03] AshleyRamdass: when you will look at the ZK site, you only see scripting
 [10:03] AshleyRamdass: well, I'm getting in the back door
 [10:03] Ramiro: i am not a technical person but i have a technical question
 [10:04] Ramiro: probably is an idiotic question
 [10:04] Ramiro: but i am sure you can respond it
 [10:04] AshleyRamdass: go ahead
 [10:04] Ramiro: ZK generates a web gui that uses ajax, right?
 [10:04] AshleyRamdass: yes
 [10:05] Ramiro: ok
 [10:05] Ramiro: my understanding of ajax is that some parts of the application stay in the web server and some in the client where the browser runs, right?
 [10:06] AshleyRamdass: nearly that, Ajax actually changes the html codes in the browser dynamically
 [10:07] Ramiro: ok
 [10:07] AshleyRamdass: That is without rebuilding the whole html structure
 [10:07] AshleyRamdass: thus, the page is never refreshed and calls are executed without the user knowing (somehow)
 [10:07] Ramiro: but who decides what part is executed locally and what parts are executed in the web server? is it done automatically by ZK?
 [10:08] AshleyRamdass: nopes, that's one of the problem with ZK
 [10:08] AshleyRamdass: it tries to mimic to much Desktop application
 [10:08] *** vpj-cd has joined #adempiere-team.
 [10:08] AshleyRamdass: but can also get the components to do operations locally or asynchronously
 [10:09] Ramiro: ok, so a bit of fiddling will need to be done in order to fine tune the web gui, right?
 [10:09] AshleyRamdass: yes
 [10:09] Ramiro: ok
 [10:10] Ramiro: is ZK generated code browser agnostic?
 [10:10] AshleyRamdass: sorry, but not familiar with agnostic
 [10:10] Ramiro: compatible with all browsers?
 [10:10] AshleyRamdass: yes
 [10:10] Ramiro: IE, FF, Opera?
 [10:11] Ramiro: ok
 [10:11] AshleyRamdass: it's one of their aims
 [10:11] Ramiro: can i use the web gui in a PDA device as well?
 [10:11] AshleyRamdass: well they are planning for mobile also
 [10:12] Ramiro: so it is upto ZK to create the compatibility for those usages, right?
 [10:12] AshleyRamdass: yes
 [10:12] AshleyRamdass: but have not tested on PDA, but I think it should work fine
 [10:12] Ramiro: so i believe we need to create a formal communication channel with the ZK guys....
 [10:13] AshleyRamdass: yes, I think that for the best interest of both projects
 [10:13] Ramiro: have you communicated to those guys at all?
 [10:13] AshleyRamdass: not so far
 [10:13] Ramiro: ok
 [10:13] AshleyRamdass: but thinking to do so
 [10:13] Ramiro: will discuss it in the council and generate a note to them
 [10:14] AshleyRamdass: thanks
-[10:14] Ramiro: congratulations AshleyRamdass
+[10:14] Ramiro: congratulations AshleyRamdass
 [10:14] Ramiro: you are now an Open Source Hero
 [10:14] AshleyRamdass: thank you Ramiro
 [10:14] Ramiro: :)
 [10:14] AshleyRamdass: at least not for time being
 [10:14] AshleyRamdass: preparing other things
 [10:15] Ramiro: you have proven an important direction for ADempiere
 [10:15] AshleyRamdass: yes, but I appreciate much Kontro effort
 [10:15] AshleyRamdass: and believe in what he thinks
 [10:15] AshleyRamdass: the technology stack he is proposing is great
 [10:16] AshleyRamdass: will try to contribute in that direction in the future
 [10:17] AshleyRamdass: that's my vision on how ADempiere should be in the future
 [10:22] Ramiro: yes
 [10:22] Ramiro: but i try to apply the salami technic
 [10:23] Ramiro: i eat salami one slice at the time
 [10:24] AshleyRamdass: yes of course
 [10:24] AshleyRamdass: smooth transition
 [10:28] *** CarlosRuiz has joined #adempiere-team.
 [10:30] *** hengsin has joined #adempiere-team.
 [10:31] hengsin: hi all
 [10:33] Ramiro: hi hengsin
 [10:33] hengsin: hi Ramiro, I guess the meeting is over ? was having line problem earlier
 [10:34] Ramiro: yes it is but AshleyRamdass is still here and has responded assorted questions
 [10:34] hengsin: do u have a log of the meetings that you can share with me ?
 [10:35] Ramiro: let me check
 [10:35] AshleyRamdass: Ramiro, I am also interested in having that
 [10:37] Ramiro: got it
 [10:37] Ramiro: emails please?
 [10:37] hengsin: hengsin@gmail.com
 [10:37] AshleyRamdass: agramdass@gmail.com
 [10:40] Ramiro: gone
 [10:40] hengsin: thanks, Ramiro.
 [10:41] AshleyRamdass: thank you, Ramiro
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 [10:58] hengsin: hi Ashley
 [10:59] hengsin: hi AshleyRamdass, are u still there ?
 [11:05] AshleyRamdass: yes Hengsin, I am here
 [11:07] hengsin: I got a question on your preference on zk over echo2 , AFAIK, echo2 also have similar api with swing.
 [11:07] AshleyRamdass: very good one
 [11:07] AshleyRamdass: in fact wanted to do that on Echo2
 [11:07] AshleyRamdass: but the scripting support in ZK is very important
 [11:08] AshleyRamdass: will enable custom UI
 [11:08] AshleyRamdass: and also community support on both technos
 [11:09] hengsin: so, zk also provide swing like api which make porting easy ?
 [11:09] AshleyRamdass: yes
 [11:10] AshleyRamdass: though not cited directly on the site
 [11:10] AshleyRamdass: you have all the API's at disposal
 [11:10] hengsin: I'm very interested to help on this effort, so the question is when your can upload the code to svn ?
 [11:11] AshleyRamdass: thanks a lot, I have donated the codes to posterita
 [11:11] AshleyRamdass: and to what I know, that should be soon in the contribution folder
 [11:12] AshleyRamdass: I have one question
 [11:12] hengsin: cool, a document on the status of the port, issue face and remaining obstacle will help a lot.
 [11:13] AshleyRamdass: yes will get that done shortly
 [11:13] AshleyRamdass: concerning 2 pack, who is maintaining the codes???
 [11:13] hengsin: carlos is the primary maintainer, I can help too.
 [11:14] AshleyRamdass: Is there any document on what has been done and what need to be done???
 [11:14] AshleyRamdass: have a guy that need to investigate on that on my side
 [11:14] hengsin: search the outstanding bug report for 2 pack then you have a rough idea
 [11:15] AshleyRamdass: ok, thanks a lot
 [11:16] hengsin: afair, there are 2 main issue with 2pack - 1. the code is in need of some serious refactoring, 2. Export of initial data needed by module - some ID management issue.
 [11:17] hengsin: for the zk port, I think it is also a good opportunity to clean up and refactor the swing client.
 [11:17] AshleyRamdass: yes of course
 [11:18] AshleyRamdass: have been working on that for some time now, extending the swing is difficult as it is currently
 [11:18] hengsin: if you are writing the document for the zk port experience, please highlight that also - area where the swing code that needs clean up or refactoring to make the zk port easier. chances are that will also make porting to other future client easier.
 [11:19] AshleyRamdass: ok
 [11:20] hengsin: yes, the code now is a bit messy, but we can improve that as we go along. I have try a swt port before but stop because I think the current swing code need some massive restructuring.
 [11:21] AshleyRamdass: yes you are right, functionalities have been added without actually cleaning up
 [11:22] AshleyRamdass: thus making control flows messy
 [11:24] hengsin: a port to Eclipse RCP and RAP platform will be very interesting, maybe my next pet project if I can find some time :)
 [11:25] AshleyRamdass: yeah, that will be also very nice
 [11:25] AshleyRamdass: but I think that web is getting more priority
 [11:28] hengsin: the interesting part is with the eclipse rcp and rap platform, it is possible to build a web and desktop client using a single code base. of course, there is also the amazing osgi architecture.
 [11:30] AshleyRamdass: had a look at osgi sometime back, really promising but could not go really in depth
 [11:33] AshleyRamdass: nice to have chat with you Hengsin, time for me to leave
 [11:33] hengsin: eclipse rcp for the web - (Link: http://www.eclipse.org/rap/)http://www.eclipse.org/rap/
 [11:33] hengsin: ok, talk 2 u next time, looking forward for your zk code!
 [11:34] AshleyRamdass: going to take a bath, then reading on the JSR's and then go to bed
 [11:34] AshleyRamdass: yes, cooperation is the key to success
 [11:34] AshleyRamdass: chat next time, bye
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 [11:36] vpj-cd: AshleyRamdass youare of posteria?
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 Session Close (#adempiere-team): Wed Apr 04 15:17:30 2007