Cost Engine Chat Fernando and Victor 29/09/2010
i think so.. :) [29/09/10 14:11:46] Fernando: i understand that your proposal is to change cost engine for more flexibility, about cost element and costing method [29/09/10 14:12:10] Victor Perez Juarez: now the costing method is defined for cost type [29/09/10 14:12:21] Victor Perez Juarez: that before have not noting fuction [29/09/10 14:12:57] Fernando: right? [29/09/10 14:13:24] Victor Perez Juarez: yes exacly [29/09/10 14:14:12] Victor Perez Juarez: where I am stop is the support the different costing method by organization, wharehouse , category product and product [29/09/10 14:14:35] Victor Perez Juarez: so now the support is ready [29/09/10 14:15:11] Victor Perez Juarez: the issue is how should indicate the Acconting Engine that method use and that level [29/09/10 14:15:13] Victor Perez Juarez: :-) [29/09/10 14:16:17] Fernando: yes, i m analysing the wiki page about this [29/09/10 14:17:01] Fernando: but, did you understand my point about product/category? [29/09/10 14:17:39] Fernando: i created some test products and when i receipt they, adempiere created all cost elements for these products [29/09/10 14:18:42] Victor Perez Juarez: mmm [29/09/10 14:18:55] Victor Perez Juarez: yes the product category approahc no like [29/09/10 14:19:22] Victor Perez Juarez: adempiere create all cost element that you had active [29/09/10 14:20:24] Fernando: yes, but i think it is a problem, because costs elements is not the same for all products.. [29/09/10 14:21:39] Victor Perez Juarez: why not [29/09/10 14:23:27] Fernando: for example: cars and services. cars can have freight, material as elements costs. service has other elements costs, like labor. [29/09/10 14:24:52] Victor Perez Juarez: what is the issue if you create and that it van be report in zero [29/09/10 14:25:05] Victor Perez Juarez: this way you can have a report consistent [29/09/10 14:29:12] Victor Perez Juarez: what do you think [29/09/10 14:29:50] Victor Perez Juarez: adempiere should create cost detail baded on M_CostElement [29/09/10 14:30:06] Victor Perez Juarez: or based on the setting M_Cost [29/09/10 14:31:34] Fernando: but do you agree that different products can have different elements costs, right? [29/09/10 14:32:46] Victor Perez Juarez: because the risk is that some user forgets to add an cost element [29/09/10 14:33:14] Victor Perez Juarez: yes , in my aproach the M_Cost is generate for all cost element are active in this moment [29/09/10 14:33:16] Fernando: mmm.. i agree [29/09/10 14:33:27] Victor Perez Juarez: as default , the user can drop if want that want not use [29/09/10 14:33:41] Victor Perez Juarez: for a spesific product [29/09/10 14:33:57] Victor Perez Juarez: but I can change this aproach [29/09/10 14:34:07] Victor Perez Juarez: what is your remondation [29/09/10 14:34:49] Fernando: i need to think but i agree with your points [29/09/10 14:35:04] Fernando: maybe somethink like costs group [29/09/10 14:36:20] Victor Perez Juarez: mmm , do you think that we need other entity [29/09/10 14:36:28] Victor Perez Juarez: we had cost element and cost type [29/09/10 14:36:50] Victor Perez Juarez: and the M_Cost I prefered call cost dimension [29/09/10 14:37:16] Victor Perez Juarez: I would add a flag into the cost element called defualt [29/09/10 14:37:32] Victor Perez Juarez: if it are market then the cost dimension will create in automaticaly [29/09/10 14:39:13] Fernando: maybe a good strategy.. i think that entering elements costs must be easier as possible [29/09/10 14:39:36] Victor Perez Juarez: mmmm [29/09/10 14:39:41] Fernando: maybe creating another entity (costs group) will complicate this process [29/09/10 14:39:48] Victor Perez Juarez: what happen when you import 10000 product [29/09/10 14:39:57] Victor Perez Juarez: imagina create the cost dimension one for one [29/09/10 14:41:23] Fernando: but if i define cost dimension for category can help [29/09/10 14:42:28] Fernando: another solution is create a process for select cost elements and create they for specific entity (product category or category) [29/09/10 14:43:04] Victor Perez Juarez: this process exist I created :-) [29/09/10 14:43:26] Victor Perez Juarez: but I understand your point [29/09/10 14:43:45] Victor Perez Juarez: the question is that is best create all active element in cost dimension for default [29/09/10 14:43:49] Victor Perez Juarez: or create manuality [29/09/10 14:44:17] Fernando: yes, but what process you referred? [29/09/10 14:44:33] Fernando: i m using the adempiere 360 with your patches [29/09/10 14:46:57] Victor Perez Juarez: in Manufacturing Management [29/09/10 14:47:09] Victor Perez Juarez: Standard Costing Management [29/09/10 14:47:30] Victor Perez Juarez: eruibal@iscapnet.com [29/09/10 14:47:34] Victor Perez Juarez: I sorry [29/09/10 14:47:37] Victor Perez Juarez: Let create every cost elements defined for a Organization, Accounting Schema, Warehouse, Resource, Cost Type ,Product and Product Attribute Set Instance . With this process is possible to create every cost elements defined for a Organization, Accounting Schema, Warehouse, Resource, Cost Type and Product. [29/09/10 14:47:40] Fernando: hehehe [29/09/10 14:47:55] Victor Perez Juarez: but I will need add the cost element [29/09/10 14:47:57] Victor Perez Juarez: :-) [29/09/10 14:48:09] Fernando: i found it [29/09/10 14:48:31] Fernando: but the parameter is cost type.. i think it is good :-) [29/09/10 14:49:55] Victor Perez Juarez: yes I need add cost element too [29/09/10 14:50:15] Victor Perez Juarez: do you think that is good add default field [29/09/10 14:50:22] Victor Perez Juarez: ? [29/09/10 14:50:34] Fernando: in cost element window? [29/09/10 14:52:02] Victor Perez Juarez: yes [29/09/10 14:52:36] Fernando: i think is a good idea [29/09/10 14:52:45] Victor Perez Juarez: ok let me ask in the forum [29/09/10 14:53:46] Victor Perez Juarez: what do you think about the how setting the costind method that wiil use for accounting and the level? [29/09/10 14:55:17] Fernando: the current is in accounting schema window, right? [29/09/10 14:57:32] Victor Perez Juarez: yes [29/09/10 14:57:44] Victor Perez Juarez: but I think that is incorrect [29/09/10 14:58:02] Victor Perez Juarez: what happen if you want accouting based in the organization [29/09/10 14:58:07] Victor Perez Juarez: or warehouse [29/09/10 14:58:42] Victor Perez Juarez: imagine that you have 2 company in the same entity [29/09/10 14:58:50] Victor Perez Juarez: the manufacturing and the reatil [29/09/10 14:59:09] Victor Perez Juarez: the manufacturing want accounting using the standard method [29/09/10 14:59:21] Victor Perez Juarez: and the retail want use average [29/09/10 14:59:56] Victor Perez Juarez: both shared custoemer and products , because they report a HQ [29/09/10 15:05:37] Fernando: but in the product costs tab we have records for all method costing, right? [29/09/10 15:07:31] Victor Perez Juarez: yes [29/09/10 15:07:33] Fernando: ops, im wrong [29/09/10 15:07:35] Victor Perez Juarez: for all the cost type [29/09/10 15:07:43] Victor Perez Juarez: and a cost type define the cost method [29/09/10 15:07:48] Victor Perez Juarez: costing method [29/09/10 15:08:09] Fernando: yes [29/09/10 15:08:45] Fernando: then you have costing information for different method costing in the same product, right? [29/09/10 15:12:52] Victor Perez Juarez: yes [29/09/10 15:13:14] Victor Perez Juarez: the combination is cost element and cost type [29/09/10 15:13:29] Victor Perez Juarez: Material -> Standard Cost [29/09/10 15:13:45] Victor Perez Juarez: Materil -> Average Invoice Cost [29/09/10 15:14:02] Victor Perez Juarez: Material -> FIFO [29/09/10 15:14:04] Victor Perez Juarez: etc [29/09/10 15:14:14] Victor Perez Juarez: the same cost element is use for any cost type [29/09/10 15:15:12] Fernando: ok. then this structure dont solves the problem? (same product, different organization-method costing) [29/09/10 15:15:29] Fernando: or the problem is about accounting process? [29/09/10 15:16:59] Victor Perez Juarez: this structure solve the issue the parallel cost [29/09/10 15:17:11] Victor Perez Juarez: this way you can had information in any costing method [29/09/10 15:17:34] Victor Perez Juarez: for any product the same time , it is very importnat to analisys [29/09/10 15:18:11] Victor Perez Juarez: no that you have the information you need indicate some place how will be posting? [29/09/10 15:19:52] Fernando: understand... if the admin can choose only one method for posting? the other methods are only for analysis [29/09/10 15:20:04] Victor Perez Juarez: exacly [29/09/10 15:20:54] Victor Perez Juarez: you need a single method for posting , but this can be different for the structure level (Product, Product Category , Warehouse , Organization) [29/09/10 15:21:30] Victor Perez Juarez: and my question here is for example in Brasil is valid have the inventory valuation for product with different costing method and COGs [29/09/10 15:22:11] Fernando: i think the single method can be defined in client window [29/09/10 15:22:51] Fernando: yes, on next friday i will have a meeting with a costs specialist.. then i will ask him about this [29/09/10 15:23:50] Victor Perez Juarez: mmm, but we have now this [29/09/10 15:23:55] Victor Perez Juarez: in the account schema [29/09/10 15:24:08] Victor Perez Juarez: but I think that is inpractical [29/09/10 15:24:19] Fernando: yes, but account schema can be different for organization right? [29/09/10 15:24:40] Victor Perez Juarez: you would create multiples schemas [29/09/10 15:24:45] Fernando: i think that defintion must be placed in major entity, in case client [29/09/10 15:25:22] Victor Perez Juarez: but is inpractical duplicate all the account information because I need in the manufacturing organizarion a different cost method [29/09/10 15:25:44] Victor Perez Juarez: the effect only are in two account inventory asset ad COGs [29/09/10 15:30:13] Fernando: do you think is wrong define it in client? [29/09/10 15:32:26] Victor Perez Juarez: if I define in the client how can indicate that an organization need a specific costing method [29/09/10 15:33:28] Fernando: i think there are two options: in the organization window or in the specific accounting schema [29/09/10 15:33:49] Victor Perez Juarez: mmm [29/09/10 15:33:58] Victor Perez Juarez: my idea is add a new entity called [29/09/10 15:34:07] Victor Perez Juarez: M_CostDefinition [29/09/10 15:34:51] Victor Perez Juarez: and you can define using next combination Organization, Warehouse , Product Category , Product [29/09/10 15:35:42] Fernando: i didnt understand your approach [29/09/10 15:37:21] Victor Perez Juarez: imagine that you need that a food product in the ogranization plant use the FIFO costing method for the posting accounting [29/09/10 15:37:53] Victor Perez Juarez: you need indicate the accounting engine that method need use this specific product [29/09/10 15:38:14] Victor Perez Juarez: the difinition setting this way [29/09/10 15:39:02] Victor Perez Juarez: Organization : Plant , Warehouse: Finish Good product , Category Product : -- , Product: Food Product [29/09/10 15:39:35] Victor Perez Juarez: when the account engine created the posting validate the cost definition [29/09/10 15:40:10] Victor Perez Juarez: if found a combination then use the cost type indicate for this combination to generate the account fact [29/09/10 15:44:42] Fernando: idea is good.. but, one question; if the same product has another configuration? the same product will have different acct value posts, right? is this correct? [29/09/10 15:45:17] Victor Perez Juarez: nop because the combination is unique [29/09/10 15:45:43] Victor Perez Juarez: and you have a sequenc field that indicate that criterial is apply first [29/09/10 15:45:59] Victor Perez Juarez: the same way that work the discount schema or tax definition [29/09/10 15:46:26] Victor Perez Juarez: so the seq minnor is take first [29/09/10 15:46:34] Fernando: ah ok [29/09/10 15:46:54] Fernando: the new window is better approach [29/09/10 15:47:48] Fernando: i have another situation in brasil (in some customers) [29/09/10 15:49:57] Fernando: in a customer, they define costs product subtracting some taxes.. example: a purchase cost car is 20000. but the real cost is 18000, because they subtract 2000 (10% of taxes, example) [29/09/10 15:51:23] Fernando: i think to create a flag in the taxes tab and create a validator in purchase order, for subtract this values... do you have similar situation? [29/09/10 15:51:41] Fernando: yes, brazilian taxes laws is so complicated.. :-) [29/09/10 15:52:08] Victor Perez Juarez: yes , Know when see mfgpro and datasul product [29/09/10 15:52:24] Victor Perez Juarez: the brasilian location are subjec separate [29/09/10 15:52:37] Victor Perez Juarez: but that you say I think that more that landen cost [29/09/10 15:53:44] Fernando: but taxes are debit in the purchase price...well, i think i will use this approach to calculate material cost [29/09/10 15:55:48] Fernando: about this changes (m_costdefinition and default flag), do you change the new CE pacth? [29/09/10 15:56:21] Victor Perez Juarez: I think need to do [29/09/10 15:56:42] Victor Perez Juarez: if other funncional consultant have not a best idea [29/09/10 15:57:30] Fernando: right.. because, as i said before, i will discuss it with a costs specialist on friday.. maybe i will have other ideas [29/09/10 15:59:10] Victor Perez Juarez: ok then I await the advice of your costs specialist [29/09/10 16:00:01] Fernando: i got some errors when im using your patch.. i will test some more and post in the tracker [29/09/10 16:02:25] Victor Perez Juarez: pleas you can please report this way I can fix [29/09/10 16:05:05] Fernando: ok :-) [29/09/10 16:05:09] Fernando: thanks victor
