Cost Engine Chat Fernando and Victor 29/09/2010

From ADempiere
Jump to: navigation, search
This Wiki is read-only for reference purposes to avoid broken links.
i think so.. :)
[29/09/10 14:11:46] Fernando: i understand that your proposal is to change cost engine for more flexibility, about cost element and costing method
[29/09/10 14:12:10] Victor Perez Juarez: now the costing method is defined for cost type
[29/09/10 14:12:21] Victor Perez Juarez: that before have not noting fuction
[29/09/10 14:12:57] Fernando: right?
[29/09/10 14:13:24] Victor Perez Juarez: yes exacly
[29/09/10 14:14:12] Victor Perez Juarez: where I am stop is the support the different costing method by organization, wharehouse , category product and product
[29/09/10 14:14:35] Victor Perez Juarez: so now the support is ready
[29/09/10 14:15:11] Victor Perez Juarez: the issue is how should indicate the Acconting Engine that method use and that level
[29/09/10 14:15:13] Victor Perez Juarez: :-)
[29/09/10 14:16:17] Fernando: yes, i m analysing the wiki page about this
[29/09/10 14:17:01] Fernando: but, did you understand my point about product/category?
[29/09/10 14:17:39] Fernando: i created some test products and when i receipt they, adempiere created all cost elements for these products
[29/09/10 14:18:42] Victor Perez Juarez: mmm
[29/09/10 14:18:55] Victor Perez Juarez: yes the product category approahc no like
[29/09/10 14:19:22] Victor Perez Juarez: adempiere create all cost element that you had active
[29/09/10 14:20:24] Fernando: yes, but i think it is a problem, because costs elements is not the same for all products..
[29/09/10 14:21:39] Victor Perez Juarez: why not
[29/09/10 14:23:27] Fernando: for example: cars and services. cars can have freight, material as elements costs. service has other elements costs, like labor.
[29/09/10 14:24:52] Victor Perez Juarez: what is the issue if you create and that it van be report in zero
[29/09/10 14:25:05] Victor Perez Juarez: this way you can have a report consistent
[29/09/10 14:29:12] Victor Perez Juarez: what do you think
[29/09/10 14:29:50] Victor Perez Juarez: adempiere should create cost detail baded on M_CostElement
[29/09/10 14:30:06] Victor Perez Juarez: or based on the setting M_Cost
[29/09/10 14:31:34] Fernando: but do you agree that different products can have different elements costs, right?
[29/09/10 14:32:46] Victor Perez Juarez: because the risk is that some user forgets to add an cost element
[29/09/10 14:33:14] Victor Perez Juarez: yes , in my aproach the M_Cost is generate for all cost element are active in this moment
[29/09/10 14:33:16] Fernando: mmm.. i agree
[29/09/10 14:33:27] Victor Perez Juarez: as default , the user can drop if want that want not use
[29/09/10 14:33:41] Victor Perez Juarez: for a spesific product
[29/09/10 14:33:57] Victor Perez Juarez: but I can change this aproach
[29/09/10 14:34:07] Victor Perez Juarez: what is your remondation
[29/09/10 14:34:49] Fernando: i need to think but i agree with your points
[29/09/10 14:35:04] Fernando: maybe somethink like costs group
[29/09/10 14:36:20] Victor Perez Juarez: mmm , do you think that we need other entity
[29/09/10 14:36:28] Victor Perez Juarez: we had cost element and cost type
[29/09/10 14:36:50] Victor Perez Juarez: and the M_Cost I prefered call cost dimension
[29/09/10 14:37:16] Victor Perez Juarez: I would add a flag into the cost element called defualt
[29/09/10 14:37:32] Victor Perez Juarez: if it are market then the cost dimension will create in automaticaly
[29/09/10 14:39:13] Fernando: maybe a good strategy.. i think that entering elements costs must be easier as possible
[29/09/10 14:39:36] Victor Perez Juarez: mmmm
[29/09/10 14:39:41] Fernando: maybe creating another entity (costs group) will complicate this process
[29/09/10 14:39:48] Victor Perez Juarez: what happen when you import 10000 product
[29/09/10 14:39:57] Victor Perez Juarez: imagina create the cost dimension one for one
[29/09/10 14:41:23] Fernando: but if i define cost dimension for category can help 
[29/09/10 14:42:28] Fernando: another solution is create a process for select cost elements and create they for specific entity (product category or category)
[29/09/10 14:43:04] Victor Perez Juarez: this process exist I created :-)
[29/09/10 14:43:26] Victor Perez Juarez: but I understand your point
[29/09/10 14:43:45] Victor Perez Juarez: the question is that is best create all active element in cost dimension for default
[29/09/10 14:43:49] Victor Perez Juarez: or create manually
[29/09/10 14:44:17] Fernando: yes, but what process you referred?
[29/09/10 14:44:33] Fernando: i m using the adempiere 360 with your patches
[29/09/10 14:46:57] Victor Perez Juarez: in Manufacturing Management
[29/09/10 14:47:09] Victor Perez Juarez: Standard Costing Management
[29/09/10 14:47:30] Victor Perez Juarez:
[29/09/10 14:47:34] Victor Perez Juarez: I sorry
[29/09/10 14:47:37] Victor Perez Juarez: Let create every cost elements defined for a Organization, Accounting Schema, Warehouse, Resource, Cost Type ,Product and Product Attribute Set Instance .
With this process is possible to create every cost elements defined for a Organization, Accounting Schema, Warehouse, Resource, Cost Type and Product.
[29/09/10 14:47:40] Fernando: hehehe
[29/09/10 14:47:55] Victor Perez Juarez: but I will need add the cost element
[29/09/10 14:47:57] Victor Perez Juarez: :-)
[29/09/10 14:48:09] Fernando: i found it
[29/09/10 14:48:31] Fernando: but the parameter is cost type.. i think it is good :-)
[29/09/10 14:49:55] Victor Perez Juarez: yes I need add cost element too
[29/09/10 14:50:15] Victor Perez Juarez: do you think that is good add default field
[29/09/10 14:50:22] Victor Perez Juarez: ?
[29/09/10 14:50:34] Fernando: in cost element window?
[29/09/10 14:52:02] Victor Perez Juarez: yes
[29/09/10 14:52:36] Fernando: i think is a good idea
[29/09/10 14:52:45] Victor Perez Juarez: ok let me ask in the forum
[29/09/10 14:53:46] Victor Perez Juarez: what do you think about the how setting the costind method that wiil use for accounting and the level?
[29/09/10 14:55:17] Fernando: the current is in accounting schema window, right?
[29/09/10 14:57:32] Victor Perez Juarez: yes
[29/09/10 14:57:44] Victor Perez Juarez: but I think that is incorrect
[29/09/10 14:58:02] Victor Perez Juarez: what happen if you want accouting based in the organization
[29/09/10 14:58:07] Victor Perez Juarez: or warehouse
[29/09/10 14:58:42] Victor Perez Juarez: imagine that you have 2 company in the same entity
[29/09/10 14:58:50] Victor Perez Juarez: the manufacturing and the retail
[29/09/10 14:59:09] Victor Perez Juarez: the manufacturing want accounting using the standard method
[29/09/10 14:59:21] Victor Perez Juarez: and the retail want use average
[29/09/10 14:59:56] Victor Perez Juarez: both shared custoemer and products , because they report a HQ
[29/09/10 15:05:37] Fernando: but in the product costs tab we have records for all method costing, right?
[29/09/10 15:07:31] Victor Perez Juarez: yes
[29/09/10 15:07:33] Fernando: ops, im wrong
[29/09/10 15:07:35] Victor Perez Juarez: for all the cost type
[29/09/10 15:07:43] Victor Perez Juarez: and a cost type define the cost method
[29/09/10 15:07:48] Victor Perez Juarez: costing method
[29/09/10 15:08:09] Fernando: yes
[29/09/10 15:08:45] Fernando: then you have costing information for different method costing in the same product, right?
[29/09/10 15:12:52] Victor Perez Juarez: yes
[29/09/10 15:13:14] Victor Perez Juarez: the combination is cost element and cost type
[29/09/10 15:13:29] Victor Perez Juarez: Material -> Standard Cost
[29/09/10 15:13:45] Victor Perez Juarez: Materil -> Average Invoice Cost
[29/09/10 15:14:02] Victor Perez Juarez: Material -> FIFO
[29/09/10 15:14:04] Victor Perez Juarez: etc
[29/09/10 15:14:14] Victor Perez Juarez: the same cost element is use for any cost type
[29/09/10 15:15:12] Fernando: ok. then this structure dont solves the problem? (same product, different organization-method costing)
[29/09/10 15:15:29] Fernando: or the problem is about accounting process?
[29/09/10 15:16:59] Victor Perez Juarez: this structure solve the issue the parallel cost
[29/09/10 15:17:11] Victor Perez Juarez: this way you can had information in any costing method
[29/09/10 15:17:34] Victor Perez Juarez: for any product the same time , it is very importnat to analisys
[29/09/10 15:18:11] Victor Perez Juarez: no that you have the information you need indicate some place how will be posting?
[29/09/10 15:19:52] Fernando: understand... if the admin can choose only one method for posting? the other methods are only for analysis
[29/09/10 15:20:04] Victor Perez Juarez: exacly
[29/09/10 15:20:54] Victor Perez Juarez: you need a single method for posting , but this can be different for the structure level (Product, Product Category , Warehouse , Organization)
[29/09/10 15:21:30] Victor Perez Juarez: and my question here is for example in Brasil is valid have the inventory valuation for product with different costing method and COGs
[29/09/10 15:22:11] Fernando: i think the single method can be defined in client window
[29/09/10 15:22:51] Fernando: yes, on next friday i will have a meeting with a costs specialist.. then i will ask him about this
[29/09/10 15:23:50] Victor Perez Juarez: mmm, but we have now this
[29/09/10 15:23:55] Victor Perez Juarez: in the account schema
[29/09/10 15:24:08] Victor Perez Juarez: but I think that is inpractical
[29/09/10 15:24:19] Fernando: yes, but account schema can be different for organization right?
[29/09/10 15:24:40] Victor Perez Juarez: you would create multiples schemas
[29/09/10 15:24:45] Fernando: i think that defintion must be placed in major entity, in case client
[29/09/10 15:25:22] Victor Perez Juarez: but is inpractical duplicate all the account information because I need in the manufacturing organizarion a different cost method
[29/09/10 15:25:44] Victor Perez Juarez: the effect only are in two account inventory asset ad COGs
[29/09/10 15:30:13] Fernando: do you think is wrong define it in client?
[29/09/10 15:32:26] Victor Perez Juarez: if I define in the client how can indicate that an organization need a specific costing method
[29/09/10 15:33:28] Fernando: i think there are two options: in the organization window or in the specific accounting schema
[29/09/10 15:33:49] Victor Perez Juarez: mmm
[29/09/10 15:33:58] Victor Perez Juarez: my idea is add a new entity called
[29/09/10 15:34:07] Victor Perez Juarez: M_CostDefinition
[29/09/10 15:34:51] Victor Perez Juarez: and you can define using next combination Organization, Warehouse , Product Category , Product
[29/09/10 15:35:42] Fernando: i didnt understand your approach
[29/09/10 15:37:21] Victor Perez Juarez: imagine that you need that a food product in the ogranization plant use the FIFO costing method for the posting accounting
[29/09/10 15:37:53] Victor Perez Juarez: you need indicate the accounting engine that method need use this specific product
[29/09/10 15:38:14] Victor Perez Juarez: the difinition setting this way
[29/09/10 15:39:02] Victor Perez Juarez: Organization : Plant , Warehouse: Finish Good product , Category Product : -- , Product: Food Product
[29/09/10 15:39:35] Victor Perez Juarez: when the account engine created the posting validate the cost definition
[29/09/10 15:40:10] Victor Perez Juarez: if found a combination then use the cost type indicate for this combination to generate the account fact
[29/09/10 15:44:42] Fernando: idea is good.. but, one question; if the same product has another configuration? the same product will have different acct value posts, right? is this correct?
[29/09/10 15:45:17] Victor Perez Juarez: nop because the combination is unique
[29/09/10 15:45:43] Victor Perez Juarez: and you have a sequenc field that indicate that criterial is apply first
[29/09/10 15:45:59] Victor Perez Juarez: the same way that work the discount schema or tax definition
[29/09/10 15:46:26] Victor Perez Juarez: so the seq minnor is take first
[29/09/10 15:46:34] Fernando: ah ok 
[29/09/10 15:46:54] Fernando: the new window is better approach
[29/09/10 15:47:48] Fernando: i have another situation in brasil (in some customers)
[29/09/10 15:49:57] Fernando: in a customer, they define costs product subtracting some taxes.. example: a purchase cost car is 20000. but the real cost is 18000, because they subtract 2000 (10% of taxes, example)
[29/09/10 15:51:23] Fernando: i think to create a flag in the taxes tab and create a validator in purchase order, for subtract this values... do you have similar situation?
[29/09/10 15:51:41] Fernando: yes, brazilian taxes laws is so complicated.. :-)
[29/09/10 15:52:08] Victor Perez Juarez: yes , Know when see mfgpro and datasul product
[29/09/10 15:52:24] Victor Perez Juarez: the brasilian location are subjec separate
[29/09/10 15:52:37] Victor Perez Juarez: but that you say I think that more that landen cost
[29/09/10 15:53:44] Fernando: but taxes are debit in the purchase price...well, i think i will use this approach to calculate material cost
[29/09/10 15:55:48] Fernando: about this changes (m_costdefinition and default flag), do you change the new CE pacth?
[29/09/10 15:56:21] Victor Perez Juarez: I think need to do
[29/09/10 15:56:42] Victor Perez Juarez: if other funncional consultant have not a best idea
[29/09/10 15:57:30] Fernando: right.. because, as i said before, i will discuss it with a costs specialist on friday.. maybe i will have other ideas
[29/09/10 15:59:10] Victor Perez Juarez: ok then I await the advice of your costs specialist
[29/09/10 16:00:01] Fernando: i got some errors when im using your patch.. i will test some more and post in the tracker
[29/09/10 16:02:25] Victor Perez Juarez: pleas you can please report this way I can fix
[29/09/10 16:05:05] Fernando: ok :-)
[29/09/10 16:05:09] Fernando: thanks victor