IRC log 4/4/07
Session Start (Adempiere:#adempiere-team): Wed Apr 04 07:47:53 2007 [07:47] *** Initial topic: BDC meeting. Agenda: 1. What causes loss of contributors. 2. How do we foster healthy consulting businesses. 3. How to encourage more to contribute. 4. ... [07:47] *** #adempiere-team: jsSolutions kontro Ramiro DeathMeat AFalcone [07:47] *** #adempiere-team was created on Fri Mar 30 07:08:55 2007. [07:49] *** vpj-cd has joined #adempiere-team. [07:49] *** Ramiro has changed the topic on channel #adempiere-team to WEB GUI meeting. [07:52] Ramiro: hi all [07:52] Ramiro: is there an agenda? [07:54] jsSolutions: hi ramiro [07:54] jsSolutions: 1. identify risks with posterita approach
2. How to collaborate to extend it rapidly? 3. Is it worth the effort to prototype other architectures?
[07:55] vpj-cd: Hi [07:55] *** Ramiro has changed the topic on channel #adempiere-team to WEB GUI meeting. Agenda 1. identify risks with posterita approach. [07:56] vpj-cd: we can start? [07:56] *** Ramiro has changed the topic on channel #adempiere-team to WEB GUI meeting. Agenda 1. identify risks with posterita approach 2. How to collaborate to extend it rapidly?. [07:56] *** Ramiro has changed the topic on channel #adempiere-team to WEB GUI meeting. Agenda 1. identify risks with posterita approach 2. How to collaborate to extend it rapidly? 3. Is it worth the effort to prototype other architectures?. [07:58] Ramiro: no Victor, it is 3 minutes before the scheduled timing [07:58] Ramiro: i am kidding [07:58] vpj-cd: haaa ok [07:58] Ramiro: :) [07:58] Ramiro: lets start [07:58] Ramiro: it seems that there is not much interest in a web gui [07:59] Ramiro: jsSolutions: are you chairing? [08:00] jsSolutions: Ramiro, yes [08:00] Ramiro: ok [08:00] Ramiro: over to you.... [08:00] vpj-cd: yes is very importnat [08:00] jsSolutions: i'd like to wait a couple minutes, there are some confirmed attendees not here [08:00] Ramiro: only 6 people showed up [08:00] vpj-cd: with web gui are will have all necesseary to adempiere [08:02] * AFalcone is back (gone 01:23:13) [08:02] *** Ramiro_ has joined #adempiere-team. [08:03] Ramiro_: correction: only 7 people showed up [08:03] Ramiro_: 2 Ramiro's .... :) [08:03] jsSolutions: :-) [08:04] AFalcone: Hi guys [08:04] vpj-cd: is important that the ppl posteria is here [08:04] vpj-cd: Ñ-( [08:04] AFalcone: hmmm I see, 2 Ramiros's.. so, you are very interesting with the issue [08:05] Ramiro_: :) [08:06] *** vclark has joined #adempiere-team. [08:06] jsSolutions: hi vince [08:06] vclark: Hey Joel [08:06] jsSolutions: we are waiting a couple minutes [08:07] jsSolutions: hengsin and posterita are not here yet [08:07] vclark: No worries. I have plenty of time. [08:07] vclark: I'm in NY sitting in a training class. [08:07] jsSolutions: :-D [08:07] vclark: So I am multi-tasking. [08:09] *** red1 has joined #adempiere-team. [08:09] Ramiro_: giving or receiving training ? [08:11] *** Ramiro has signed off IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). [08:11] red1: good evening from here to all [08:11] jsSolutions: hello red1 [08:12] AFalcone: Hi red1 [08:12] *** fredtsang has joined #adempiere-team. [08:12] fredtsang: hi all [08:12] kontro: Hello red1. Where is here this time. [08:12] jsSolutions: hi fred [08:12] fredtsang: I was in an hour before [08:12] fredtsang: I was looking at the GMT [08:13] red1: just arrived home [08:13] red1: dozed off in the commuter train... [08:13] red1: her is 2300 hrs [08:13] jsSolutions: well, I guess we can start [08:13] vpj-cd: ok [08:13] jsSolutions: hengsin asked for meeting [08:13] jsSolutions: but is not here... [08:13] red1: hmm [08:14] jsSolutions: first point: identify risks with the posterita poc [08:14] red1: i tot u asked for meeting? [08:14] AFalcone: hi fred [08:14] fredtsang: hi alejandro [08:14] fredtsang: I will not have much time though [08:14] fredtsang: because I got the time wrong [08:14] vpj-cd: I only have some issues to use zk [08:14] red1: anyway topics are good to go [08:14] red1: pls do not repeat points as we can have this on record [08:15] jsSolutions: posterita 'planted the flag' [08:15] jsSolutions: with the rollout of the POC [08:15] fredtsang: ok we have something online [08:15] jsSolutions: it looks nice [08:15] fredtsang: (Link: http://tamak.dyndns.org:8085/webui/)http://tamak.dyndns.org:8085/webui/ [08:15] fredtsang: it might not be on for long [08:15] fredtsang: but you can try it out [08:16] vpj-cd: frsit issue you gui is regular, if we need a web gui it have reallity expectacular Ñ-) [08:16] jsSolutions: well, i think the attention has been on the framework [08:16] jsSolutions: the look n feel can be anything [08:16] jsSolutions: correct, fred? [08:17] jsSolutions: it's ajax? [08:17] fredtsang: Yes, we can alter the look and feel [08:17] fredtsang: The main person behind it is not here [08:17] fredtsang: but this is what I understand [08:18] fredtsang: basically, in terms of coding [08:18] vpj-cd: ok next pont zk use a technology that have not adoption [08:18] fredtsang: it is nearly identical to the swing ui [08:18] vpj-cd: is Xul [08:18] fredtsang: it's zk [08:18] fredtsang: but we code in java [08:18] fredtsang: we don't use Xul at all [08:18] vpj-cd: yes th ecode is java [08:18] vpj-cd: but exist many framework in java [08:19] vpj-cd: echo2, gwt, laszlo , zk etc [08:19] kontro: jsf [08:19] vpj-cd: yes jsf [08:19] jsSolutions: well, there are lots of ideas, but we have zk [08:19] jsSolutions: so i'd rather focus on risks with zk [08:19] jsSolutions: later we will talk about whether to pursue others [08:20] vpj-cd: I think the risk is no exist a enterpsise importnat that are back the zk [08:20] vpj-cd: only commnunity [08:20] jsSolutions: ha ha, like adempiere! [08:20] vpj-cd: but I see not a workin important and plactical in zk [08:20] vpj-cd: a pplication the size as adempiere [08:20] vpj-cd: expert posteria [08:21] vpj-cd: ?-) [08:21] vpj-cd: :-) [08:21] jsSolutions: risks with zk: [08:21] jsSolutions: 1. uses xul
2. community backed
[08:21] vclark: Sorry guys, I stepped away for a moment. Let me catch up on the thread and then I'll jump in. [08:22] kontro: Somebody is willing to do the work. Do we have any reason to force him stop - what ever tools he uses ? [08:22] fredtsang: I can't really comment on the choice of technology [08:22] fredtsang: the best guy to defend the use of zk would be Ashley [08:22] fredtsang: but he studied [08:22] fredtsang: echo 2 [08:22] fredtsang: gwt [08:22] Ramiro_: fredtsang: is this ajax Fred? [08:22] fredtsang: JSF [08:22] fredtsang: yes it is [08:22] fredtsang: and struts [08:22] fredtsang: and he opted for zk [08:22] Ramiro_: i am very very impressed [08:22] red1: joel, u call these risks? [08:22] fredtsang: simply because there is a fundamental [08:23] fredtsang: process in zk [08:23] red1: lets focus on risks :D [08:23] DeathMeat: struts + tiles? [08:23] fredtsang: that makes everything easy [08:23] fredtsang: basically [08:23] fredtsang: this is copy and paste [08:23] fredtsang: of the swing ui [08:23] fredtsang: dead easy [08:23] red1: like the words - dead easy [08:23] fredtsang: the major breakthrough is in a single class [08:23] jsSolutions: is there a lot of gui code? [08:23] Ramiro_: multitab web gui, wow!!! [08:23] fredtsang: like i said [08:23] red1: and that someone (ashley, posterita) has proven it! [08:24] fredtsang: it's The adempiere code [08:24] fredtsang: just renaming [08:24] vpj-cd: ok Ramiro the risk is we have a techologic nobody use [08:24] fredtsang: ComboBox by ZComboBox [08:24] fredtsang: and keep everything the same [08:24] fredtsang: well there are some other complexities [08:24] fredtsang: but basically this is how this is done [08:24] fredtsang: just copy paste [08:24] fredtsang: and renaming [08:24] fredtsang: with a touch of genius from Ashley [08:24] Ramiro_: so we can get support from the zk team because they will be very much interested!!! [08:24] vpj-cd: yes also in echo2 or gwt [08:24] Ramiro_: i call that an opportunity [08:24] vpj-cd: all have same componets [08:25] kontro: Since there is no good middle layer interface any solution is only temporary - so best option is to take easiest road and it seems to be zk. [08:25] fredtsang: yes but they lack [08:25] fredtsang: the threading [08:25] fredtsang: part [08:25] fredtsang: and this is why zk was chosen [08:25] fredtsang: don't ask me on this [08:25] fredtsang: Ashley will explain that better [08:25] red1: u saying that the threading part is problem with others besides zk? [08:25] vpj-cd: I think the main desition in this subjent is what technology will are in future [08:26] fredtsang: I think there can be many technologies [08:26] red1: victor, how far future? [08:26] red1: i think zk is nice for now [08:26] red1: if it involves dead easy works [08:26] Ramiro_: fredtsang: is this example complete, i mean is it a complete web ADempiere GUI? [08:26] vpj-cd: the future in gwt , openlazslo , or seeams [08:26] jsSolutions: future may be main decision, but not immediate topic :-) [08:26] fredtsang: no it is not complete [08:27] fredtsang: this is a work in progress [08:27] jsSolutions: fred, has your team identified any risks? [08:27] jsSolutions: to this approach [08:27] Ramiro_: how much effort still needed for an alpha complete UI? [08:27] fredtsang: There was risk [08:27] kontro: One question how many of us is going to help ashley if he chooses zk and is there any more helping hands if he chooses some other framework ? [08:27] fredtsang: but this POC reduces all risk [08:27] fredtsang: we can save [08:27] fredtsang: we can change the display [08:27] fredtsang: we have callout working [08:27] fredtsang: so we need to implement grid [08:27] fredtsang: some search [08:28] fredtsang: but I don't think right now there will be stumbling blocks [08:28] red1: has anyone else able to learn to do this too besides Ashley? [08:28] kontro: If all the work is going to be done by ashley then we can not interfere - I think. [08:28] jsSolutions: ok, so for now risks: [08:28] vclark: Can we discuss some of the "under the hood" stuff? [08:28] jsSolutions: 1. uses xul
2. community backed
[08:28] jsSolutions: vince- sure if looking for risks [08:29] Ramiro_: risk 1 is completely mitigated if we use java, right? [08:29] vclark: yes, risks. [08:29] fredtsang: yes [08:29] fredtsang: we don't use xul [08:29] red1: fred, are u able to learn this ZK easily yourself? Learning risks here [08:29] fredtsang: I have someone on it [08:29] fredtsang: who is learning it [08:29] fredtsang: I don't have time :) [08:29] fredtsang: we are guiding him [08:29] vclark: What is the interface to the AD? The existing servlets, or has this been rewritten? [08:30] Ramiro_: fredtsang: is ZK browser agnostic? [08:30] fredtsang: yes i think it is. have to check on zk [08:30] fredtsang: zk is very popular [08:30] fredtsang: among community [08:30] fredtsang: among top 5 projects [08:30] fredtsang: together with Adempiere [08:31] fredtsang: healthy community! [08:31] red1: yes, thats what Ashley said [08:31] red1: it caught Ash's attention to try it! [08:31] *** Ramiro_ is now known as Ramiro. [08:31] jsSolutions: fred, to vince's question: What is the interface to the AD? [08:31] jsSolutions: is that the copy/paste? [08:31] fredtsang: yes that's copy paste [08:31] fredtsang: it should behave exactly the way [08:31] fredtsang: Swing behaves [08:32] fredtsang: because we copy and paste [08:32] fredtsang: and rename [08:32] fredtsang: :-) [08:32] jsSolutions: sorry for non-techie question, why do you have to copy if its the same? [08:32] jsSolutions: have to make some additions? [08:33] Ramiro: so the only risk that i am seeing is that this is community based, not much of a risk if you ask me [08:33] fredtsang: Must use a different ui component [08:34] fredtsang: If adempiere was flexible [08:34] fredtsang: we could have just use a different implementation [08:34] fredtsang: but right now [08:34] fredtsang: we don't intend to make it flexible [08:34] fredtsang: just make it work! [08:34] jsSolutions: ok, vince, more tech questions? [08:34] vclark: I think this discussion needs two major topics to be addressed. [08:34] Ramiro: as much as the swing ui works anyway [08:34] vclark: 1) MVC framework [08:34] vclark: 2) UI components [08:35] vclark: Most of the discussion up to this point seems to be focused on what Ajax toolkit to use. [08:35] vpj-cd: the componet should simila ad swing [08:35] vclark: I want to know what we're putting under the hood!! [08:35] kontro: Read the source man! [08:35] kontro: :) [08:36] DeathMeat: hehe [08:36] fredtsang: yeah [08:36] fredtsang: we can send the source code [08:36] fredtsang: anytime [08:36] DeathMeat: some things can't be expressed with words [08:36] vclark: Which source, the Posterita source? [08:36] kontro: I meant zk source... [08:36] fredtsang: well the web ui part [08:36] fredtsang: no the current posterita code is a different framework [08:37] fredtsang: Guys I will really have to go, I have a dinner and I planned the meeting to be at 6pm [08:37] fredtsang: can we reschedule that meeting ? [08:37] jsSolutions: ok, main thing we need you for, is point two [08:37] jsSolutions: how to collaborate [08:37] DeathMeat: a dinner... mhh you make me hungry fred [08:37] *** Donald has joined #adempiere-team. [08:38] jsSolutions: are we close to being able to put the code up [08:38] fredtsang: well we can send the code to contribution [08:38] vclark: Hey Don. [08:38] fredtsang: and those interested can just pick it up [08:38] fredtsang: and contribute [08:38] fredtsang: we have no problem [08:38] jsSolutions: ok, good. have a nice dinner [08:38] jsSolutions: we'll talk about the rest :-) [08:39] fredtsang: Ashley will be joining the chat later on [08:39] fredtsang: so any techie questions you can ask him [08:39] red1: fred, if there are some core changes to ADempiere, do u think it affect this Web UI? [08:39] kontro: fredtsang, Ask ashley if it would be possible to write some script that parses swing classes to zk classes so that he does not have to copy paste. [08:40] kontro: Using sed for example. [08:40] fredtsang: ok I will mention that to him [08:40] red1: thanks fred [08:40] fredtsang: thanks everyone [08:40] jsSolutions: bye fred [08:40] red1: bon apetite! [08:40] jsSolutions: ok, point 2: how to collaborate [08:40] Ramiro: if ashley can write a quick and dirty turoial in the wiki on how to generate the web ui from swing it will address point 2.... [08:40] kontro: Also ask him to check if javaassist could be used to manipulate classes at load time. [08:41] Ramiro: turoial=tutorial [08:41] jsSolutions: 1. they coontribute code [08:41] jsSolutions: 2. write tutorial [08:42] jsSolutions: 3. interested parties jump in [08:42] jsSolutions: ? [08:43] jsSolutions: going, going.... [08:43] kontro: 4. Everybody live their lives happily ever after. [08:43] jsSolutions: :-D [08:44] Ramiro: this is really a good jumpstart into a web gui [08:44] jsSolutions: ok, point 3- other prototypes [08:44] Ramiro: i am impressed [08:44] Ramiro: it is fast [08:44] Donald: I think we should at least perform due diligence on what are the other possibilities. [08:44] Ramiro: easy to generate from swing [08:45] Ramiro: the guys from posterita did the due diligence [08:45] kontro: It is important at this stage that existing code can be used. [08:45] Donald: Do we have a list of requirements or parameters that a new UI technology needs to meet [08:45] Ramiro: and even if it just a short term future solution i believe is worth it [08:45] kontro: And it solves the database connection security issue. [08:45] Ramiro: for a very reasonable effort [08:46] Ramiro: we can have an alpha gui in less than a month or so [08:46] *** vpj-cd has signed off IRC (Remote closed the connection). [08:46] jsSolutions: so if someone feels strongly in another approach, they can proto like ashley did [08:47] jsSolutions: otherwise, everyone concentrate on alpha gui? [08:47] *** vpj-cd has joined #adempiere-team. [08:47] jsSolutions: that gives room to victor to pursue [08:48] vpj-cd: ok [08:48] vpj-cd: I think we need [08:49] vpj-cd: a good platafortm [08:49] vpj-cd: no only a good frame work [08:50] Ramiro: i agree joel [08:50] jsSolutions: ok. 1. if someone feels strongly in another approach, they can do their own proto
2. otherwise, everyone concentrate on alpha gui using ajax/zk?
[08:51] Ramiro: this is the official direction but we can add more if any interested party prototypes ans demonstrates value [08:51] Ramiro: 1. yes [08:51] kontro: Survival of the fittest. [08:51] Ramiro: 2. yes [08:51] vclark: I am trying to understand how this UI is being generated. This is being done from the classes that generate the Swing client? [08:52] kontro: Yes I think that mainly imports have to changed. [08:53] *** kontro has left #adempiere-team. [08:54] jsSolutions: vince, yes, the copy the swing code [08:54] jsSolutions: it generates from the AD [08:54] jsSolutions: in the same way [08:54] jsSolutions: i think we can conclude the formal meeting [08:54] vclark: So swing classes are copied, imports are changed, and the new imports are classes that translate from thick client components to HTML? [08:55] jsSolutions: maybe we can schedule time with ashley to explain in detail the technical stuff [08:55] vpj-cd: yes or ony generate a xml [08:55] vpj-cd: zk use xml [08:55] vpj-cd: and [08:55] vpj-cd: openlazlo also [08:55] vpj-cd: the unique use same form is echo2 and gwt [08:56] vclark: Yes, I would like to understand what is happening under the hood. [08:56] vpj-cd: zk and openlazslo are very similar [08:56] red1: i agree joel that a proto is the best POC.. so now its proven, the million dollar question is answered [08:57] vpj-cd: a use xul and other use another language [08:57] jsSolutions: victor, can you explain what is 'a good platform'? [08:57] vpj-cd: but I am agree [08:57] vpj-cd: the best way to show the avantage [08:57] vpj-cd: is [08:57] vpj-cd: a proptotype [08:57] red1: i second joel's call for concluding this discussion [08:58] red1: i think a prototype has been requested all the time... its moot now to speculate in lieu of one. :) [08:58] jsSolutions: ok, i'll post the summary [08:59] red1: remember, we take the line of Extreme Programming... go read it up [09:00] red1: my congrats to Posterita for making a fast study, working proto, and shown a live online demo, with download movie too! [09:02] vpj-cd: yes [09:02] vpj-cd: is exelent [09:03] vpj-cd: I only no like zk :-) [09:03] vpj-cd: as plataform [09:03] vpj-cd: but I need build [09:03] vpj-cd: a prototipe also [09:03] vpj-cd: :-) [09:04] vclark: Victor, what would be your preference? I've been working on a JSF prototype. [09:04] vpj-cd: I prefered lazslo or gwt [09:04] vpj-cd: I think this framework have more future [09:05] vclark: Those are Ajax toolkits, correct? [09:05] vclark: Or is there more to them. [09:08] Donald: Is this a payed development of the gui or is everyone contributing [09:10] Ramiro: it has been a posterita work until now [09:10] Ramiro: not paid [09:11] Donald: but moving forward how are we getting to the deliverable in one month? [09:11] Ramiro: (Link: http://tamak.dyndns.org:8085/webui/)http://tamak.dyndns.org:8085/webui/ [09:11] Ramiro: you can visit the POC there [09:11] Ramiro: going forward [09:11] Ramiro: posterita will write a tutorial to be posted in the wiki [09:12] Ramiro: everyone will collaborate based on the tutorial [09:12] Ramiro: but this is just a copy and paste exercise [09:12] Ramiro: no development is required [09:14] vpj-cd: but as any project open source [09:14] vpj-cd: exist some implemment [09:14] vpj-cd: and la best is will are to future :-) [09:14] vpj-cd: this case ano POC [09:14] vpj-cd: ano now [09:14] Ramiro: ??? [09:14] Ramiro: what do you mean Victor? [09:15] Ramiro: i do not understand [09:15] Ramiro: may be in spanish... [09:15] vpj-cd: we need more prototype and see what is best [09:16] vpj-cd: perdon ramiro [09:17] vpj-cd: mi didea es que podemos presentar varios prototipos [09:17] vpj-cd: y como en el open source [09:17] vpj-cd: el mas aceptable preblalece [09:17] Ramiro: de acuerdo [09:17] vpj-cd: pero en principio [09:17] Ramiro: did you visit the site Donald ? [09:18] Donald: yes and it looks great! [09:18] *** fredtsang_ has joined #adempiere-team. [09:18] vpj-cd: el prototipo es exelente [09:18] Donald: How is the Zoom functionality etc going to work in ajax? [09:19] Ramiro: interesting question [09:19] Ramiro: ashley from posterita should respond that [09:19] Donald: The horizontal navigation through the app is important [09:20] Ramiro: however the web gui is genrated using the same java code as the swing ui [09:20] vpj-cd: el prototipo es exelente [09:20] Ramiro: so i do not think is a problem [09:20] Ramiro: that makes the effort very reasonable [09:20] Donald: I really like what has been done [09:21] Ramiro: it is just a copy and paste project [09:21] Donald: I would like to see the ability to combine grid and form views [09:21] Donald: like header on sales order with line items below [09:21] Ramiro: yes, it will be done, fred mentioned it [09:22] Donald: this was a performance issue in the swing [09:22] Ramiro: i liked the multitab display [09:22] Ramiro: very nice [09:31] *** AshleyRamdass has joined #adempiere-team. [09:32] AshleyRamdass: hi everybody [09:32] AshleyRamdass: seems that the meeting is already over [09:33] red1: well we re still here.. [09:33] red1: :D [09:33] red1: testing out your online demo version [09:33] red1: great stuff [09:33] AshleyRamdass: thanks [09:33] AshleyRamdass: sorry could not make it [09:33] AshleyRamdass: running running running [09:33] red1: its ok... your work preceded u [09:33] AshleyRamdass: but still could not [09:34] red1: take it easy.. u outdoing everyone! [09:34] AshleyRamdass: thanks [09:34] red1: u did what was most important.. so no urgency [09:34] AshleyRamdass: ok [09:34] AshleyRamdass: can I have the logs [09:34] red1: i think Joel posted or is posting them.. in the wiki.. u sure to get it soon [09:35] AshleyRamdass: thanks [09:35] red1: basically some questions about how u did it and what are the risks to changes and other apps [09:35] *** fredtsang has signed off IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). [09:35] red1: vince asked about under the hood [09:35] red1: victor wanted to know if its a good choice versus GWT or some Laszo [09:36] AshleyRamdass: well, it's pure RAD [09:36] red1: i m concerned about how fast to teach another idiot like me how to do what u did [09:36] AshleyRamdass: the real challenge was about the Env class [09:37] AshleyRamdass: but now have greater challenge, that's why I donated the codes to posterita [09:37] AshleyRamdass: allow someone to continue what I started [09:37] *** vpj-cd has signed off IRC (). [09:37] red1: thats the right and only thing to do [09:38] AshleyRamdass: yes, I hope that an alpha gets ready very soon [09:38] * red1 reading ZK site now... [09:39] red1: its time to market .. [09:39] red1: and make it good enough... need not be perfect [09:39] red1: no need to look beyond 6 mths i say [09:39] red1: Fred said it is dead easy [09:39] AshleyRamdass: yes [09:40] red1: short curve is an important killer [09:40] red1: Kontro was asking if u can use JavaAssist to parse so that no copy/paste work is needed [09:41] AshleyRamdass: Investigated on that, but did not go in depth [09:41] red1: well.. bother kontro then.. [09:41] AshleyRamdass: have been reading all the JSR's he proposed [09:41] AshleyRamdass: he's approach is very good [09:42] AshleyRamdass: to make ADempiere a real Enterprise Software [09:42] AshleyRamdass: scalable and flexible [09:42] red1: well there is bound to be oohs and aahs [09:43] red1: but this AHA! is great enuf [09:43] red1: in bazaar not much theory.. alot of trading.. [09:43] red1: i seeing the Ajax demo.. very impressive howtos [09:43] red1: u click on a feature snip... then u click on its source... highly associative learning here [09:44] AshleyRamdass: yes, a great framework they have developed [09:44] AshleyRamdass: the best part is that they are continuously growing [09:44] AshleyRamdass: always in top 7 in sourceforge [09:46] red1: the greatest thingy since i met Compiere 4 yrs ago [09:46] red1: the demo userguide is so comprehensive and no brainer to go thru [09:47] red1: u shuld write to them and tell them what u did with demo link [09:47] red1: if u find some thing to improve them, u send it there... get yourself mentioned [09:47] red1: u grow that way fast [09:48] red1: you become guru ;) [09:48] AshleyRamdass: yes will surely contribute also to ZK in way [09:50] AshleyRamdass: still, could not get the logs [09:50] AshleyRamdass: what has been said for question 3 [09:50] AshleyRamdass: will there be prototype on other architectures??? [09:51] red1: 3 meaning other technos? [09:51] AshleyRamdass: yes [09:51] AshleyRamdass: on my side can get that on Echo, JSF, ... [09:52] red1: victor asked for other options.. but i think what is important is ready to go with no risks [09:52] AshleyRamdass: in fact inspired from my novice experience on JSF to get the ZK working [09:52] red1: can get more agile than that [09:53] red1: the main thing is u get something to work, that says a lot.. u and others can build more from there [09:53] red1: options often change [09:53] AshleyRamdass: ok [09:53] red1: unavoidable.. and we learn all the time [09:53] red1: but as for now... we got a solid implemented proto [09:54] red1: remember when Compiere first came out and with version 244 it was lousy [09:54] red1: many parts broke down [09:54] red1: but it hit top ten [09:54] red1: publish early, update often [09:54] AshleyRamdass: sorry but never knew 244 [09:54] red1: your best chance to get others to improve it when u publish fast [09:54] AshleyRamdass: first version, 252d [09:55] red1: haha.. just telling u some history u need not witness ;D [09:55] red1: we use to cry [09:55] AshleyRamdass: ok [09:56] red1: ok take it easy.. dont burn out now [09:56] red1: i m going to bed! [09:56] AshleyRamdass: thanks a lot [09:56] AshleyRamdass: good night [09:56] *** red1 has signed off IRC ("bybye"). [09:56] Ramiro: AshleyRamdass: still there? [09:57] AshleyRamdass: yes [09:59] Ramiro: we were wondering AshleyRamdass [09:59] Ramiro: if you could write a quick and dirty tutorial on how to generate the web ui using the java code in swing [09:59] Ramiro: fred said it was literally a copy and paste effort [10:00] AshleyRamdass: yes, managed to get that to the copy and paste [10:00] AshleyRamdass: but initially that was not my idea [10:00] AshleyRamdass: the way I wanted that to work [10:00] AshleyRamdass: but in the end, why re-invent the wheel [10:01] AshleyRamdass: The biggest challenge is the Env.getCtx() problem [10:01] AshleyRamdass: about 1300 references [10:02] Ramiro: we can revisit the decision later but for short term future this is perfect [10:02] Ramiro: if you invest a bit of time in the tutorial we will get the help of many [10:03] AshleyRamdass: yes, will try to get that done [10:03] AshleyRamdass: I know it's difficult to understand how it is working [10:03] Ramiro: great! [10:03] AshleyRamdass: when you will look at the ZK site, you only see scripting [10:03] AshleyRamdass: well, I'm getting in the back door [10:03] Ramiro: i am not a technical person but i have a technical question [10:04] Ramiro: probably is an idiotic question [10:04] Ramiro: but i am sure you can respond it [10:04] AshleyRamdass: go ahead [10:04] Ramiro: ZK generates a web gui that uses ajax, right? [10:04] AshleyRamdass: yes [10:05] Ramiro: ok [10:05] Ramiro: my understanding of ajax is that some parts of the application stay in the web server and some in the client where the browser runs, right? [10:06] AshleyRamdass: nearly that, Ajax actually changes the html codes in the browser dynamically [10:07] Ramiro: ok [10:07] AshleyRamdass: That is without rebuilding the whole html structure [10:07] AshleyRamdass: thus, the page is never refreshed and calls are executed without the user knowing (somehow) [10:07] Ramiro: but who decides what part is executed locally and what parts are executed in the web server? is it done automatically by ZK? [10:08] AshleyRamdass: nopes, that's one of the problem with ZK [10:08] AshleyRamdass: it tries to mimic to much Desktop application [10:08] *** vpj-cd has joined #adempiere-team. [10:08] AshleyRamdass: but can also get the components to do operations locally or asynchronously [10:09] Ramiro: ok, so a bit of fiddling will need to be done in order to fine tune the web gui, right? [10:09] AshleyRamdass: yes [10:09] Ramiro: ok [10:10] Ramiro: is ZK generated code browser agnostic? [10:10] AshleyRamdass: sorry, but not familiar with agnostic [10:10] Ramiro: compatible with all browsers? [10:10] AshleyRamdass: yes [10:10] Ramiro: IE, FF, Opera? [10:11] Ramiro: ok [10:11] AshleyRamdass: it's one of their aims [10:11] Ramiro: can i use the web gui in a PDA device as well? [10:11] AshleyRamdass: well they are planning for mobile also [10:12] Ramiro: so it is upto ZK to create the compatibility for those usages, right? [10:12] AshleyRamdass: yes [10:12] AshleyRamdass: but have not tested on PDA, but I think it should work fine [10:12] Ramiro: so i believe we need to create a formal communication channel with the ZK guys.... [10:13] AshleyRamdass: yes, I think that for the best interest of both projects [10:13] Ramiro: have you communicated to those guys at all? [10:13] AshleyRamdass: not so far [10:13] Ramiro: ok [10:13] AshleyRamdass: but thinking to do so [10:13] Ramiro: will discuss it in the council and generate a note to them [10:14] AshleyRamdass: thanks [10:14] Ramiro: congratulations AshleyRamdass [10:14] Ramiro: you are now an Open Source Hero [10:14] AshleyRamdass: thank you Ramiro [10:14] Ramiro: :) [10:14] AshleyRamdass: at least not for time being [10:14] AshleyRamdass: preparing other things [10:15] Ramiro: you have proven an important direction for ADempiere [10:15] AshleyRamdass: yes, but I appreciate much Kontro effort [10:15] AshleyRamdass: and believe in what he thinks [10:15] AshleyRamdass: the technology stack he is proposing is great [10:16] AshleyRamdass: will try to contribute in that direction in the future [10:17] AshleyRamdass: that's my vision on how ADempiere should be in the future [10:22] Ramiro: yes [10:22] Ramiro: but i try to apply the salami technic [10:23] Ramiro: i eat salami one slice at the time [10:24] AshleyRamdass: yes of course [10:24] AshleyRamdass: smooth transition [10:28] *** CarlosRuiz has joined #adempiere-team. [10:30] *** hengsin has joined #adempiere-team. [10:31] hengsin: hi all [10:33] Ramiro: hi hengsin [10:33] hengsin: hi Ramiro, I guess the meeting is over ? was having line problem earlier [10:34] Ramiro: yes it is but AshleyRamdass is still here and has responded assorted questions [10:34] hengsin: do u have a log of the meetings that you can share with me ? [10:35] Ramiro: let me check [10:35] AshleyRamdass: Ramiro, I am also interested in having that [10:37] Ramiro: got it [10:37] Ramiro: emails please? [10:37] hengsin: hengsin@gmail.com [10:37] AshleyRamdass: agramdass@gmail.com [10:40] Ramiro: gone [10:40] hengsin: thanks, Ramiro. [10:41] AshleyRamdass: thank you, Ramiro [10:42] *** CarlosRuiz has signed off IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). [10:58] hengsin: hi Ashley [10:59] hengsin: hi AshleyRamdass, are u still there ? [11:05] AshleyRamdass: yes Hengsin, I am here [11:07] hengsin: I got a question on your preference on zk over echo2 , AFAIK, echo2 also have similar api with swing. [11:07] AshleyRamdass: very good one [11:07] AshleyRamdass: in fact wanted to do that on Echo2 [11:07] AshleyRamdass: but the scripting support in ZK is very important [11:08] AshleyRamdass: will enable custom UI [11:08] AshleyRamdass: and also community support on both technos [11:09] hengsin: so, zk also provide swing like api which make porting easy ? [11:09] AshleyRamdass: yes [11:10] AshleyRamdass: though not cited directly on the site [11:10] AshleyRamdass: you have all the API's at disposal [11:10] hengsin: I'm very interested to help on this effort, so the question is when your can upload the code to svn ? [11:11] AshleyRamdass: thanks a lot, I have donated the codes to posterita [11:11] AshleyRamdass: and to what I know, that should be soon in the contribution folder [11:12] AshleyRamdass: I have one question [11:12] hengsin: cool, a document on the status of the port, issue face and remaining obstacle will help a lot. [11:13] AshleyRamdass: yes will get that done shortly [11:13] AshleyRamdass: concerning 2 pack, who is maintaining the codes??? [11:13] hengsin: carlos is the primary maintainer, I can help too. [11:14] AshleyRamdass: Is there any document on what has been done and what need to be done??? [11:14] AshleyRamdass: have a guy that need to investigate on that on my side [11:14] hengsin: search the outstanding bug report for 2 pack then you have a rough idea [11:15] AshleyRamdass: ok, thanks a lot [11:16] hengsin: afair, there are 2 main issue with 2pack - 1. the code is in need of some serious refactoring, 2. Export of initial data needed by module - some ID management issue. [11:17] hengsin: for the zk port, I think it is also a good opportunity to clean up and refactor the swing client. [11:17] AshleyRamdass: yes of course [11:18] AshleyRamdass: have been working on that for some time now, extending the swing is difficult as it is currently [11:18] hengsin: if you are writing the document for the zk port experience, please highlight that also - area where the swing code that needs clean up or refactoring to make the zk port easier. chances are that will also make porting to other future client easier. [11:19] AshleyRamdass: ok [11:20] hengsin: yes, the code now is a bit messy, but we can improve that as we go along. I have try a swt port before but stop because I think the current swing code need some massive restructuring. [11:21] AshleyRamdass: yes you are right, functionalities have been added without actually cleaning up [11:22] AshleyRamdass: thus making control flows messy [11:24] hengsin: a port to Eclipse RCP and RAP platform will be very interesting, maybe my next pet project if I can find some time :) [11:25] AshleyRamdass: yeah, that will be also very nice [11:25] AshleyRamdass: but I think that web is getting more priority [11:28] hengsin: the interesting part is with the eclipse rcp and rap platform, it is possible to build a web and desktop client using a single code base. of course, there is also the amazing osgi architecture. [11:30] AshleyRamdass: had a look at osgi sometime back, really promising but could not go really in depth [11:33] AshleyRamdass: nice to have chat with you Hengsin, time for me to leave [11:33] hengsin: eclipse rcp for the web - (Link: http://www.eclipse.org/rap/)http://www.eclipse.org/rap/ [11:33] hengsin: ok, talk 2 u next time, looking forward for your zk code! [11:34] AshleyRamdass: going to take a bath, then reading on the JSR's and then go to bed [11:34] AshleyRamdass: yes, cooperation is the key to success [11:34] AshleyRamdass: chat next time, bye [11:35] *** AshleyRamdass has signed off IRC ("ChatZilla 0.9.78 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]"). [11:35] *** hengsin has left #adempiere-team. [11:36] vpj-cd: AshleyRamdass youare of posteria? [12:31] *** Ramiro has left #adempiere-team. [12:39] *** vclark has signed off IRC (Remote closed the connection). [13:46] *** fredtsang_ has signed off IRC ("Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0.0.3/2007030919]"). Session Close (#adempiere-team): Wed Apr 04 15:17:30 2007
