FT/TT meeting minutes February 22nd 2012

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  1. General
    • Moderator: Mark Ostermann
    • Participants: Mario Calderon, Victor Perez, Tobias Schöneberg, Colin Rooney, Trifon Trifonov
    • Date/ Time: Feb. 22nd 2012/ 15:00h - 16:30h GMT
  2. Roadmap to new release
    • What are the next steps towards 3.8
    • Which improvements can be gathered by all of us community members
    • What steps to motivate community work (besides TT/ FT members)?


Following is the meeting log, starting after TT/FT decided to record and publish the whole meeting log in future

Wednesday, February 22, 2012
[22.02.2012 16:59:11] Mark Ostermann: hi all
[22.02.2012 16:59:30] Perez Juarez, Victor: Hi
[22.02.2012 16:59:36] Perez Juarez, Victor: Mark
[22.02.2012 16:59:39] Schöneberg, Tobias: hi
[22.02.2012 17:00:44] Calderón, Mario: hello everybody!
[22.02.2012 17:01:12] Rooney, Colin: hi all
[22.02.2012 17:01:54] Mark Ostermann: hi colin
[22.02.2012 17:02:15] Trifonov, Trifon: hi everyone
[22.02.2012 17:02:26] Rooney, Colin: hi Mark
[22.02.2012 17:02:32] Mark Ostermann: moin trifon, moin victor
[22.02.2012 17:02:46 | Bearbeitet 17:02:50] Mark Ostermann: hi mario
[22.02.2012 17:04:39] Perez Juarez, Victor: Mario what is the agenda?
[22.02.2012 17:04:56] Calderón, Mario: well, the agenda today is simple:
[22.02.2012 17:05:15] Calderón, Mario: steps towards Version 3.8
[22.02.2012 17:05:33] Calderón, Mario: first we need moderator and secretary
[22.02.2012 17:06:38] Calderón, Mario: volunteers?
[22.02.2012 17:06:55] Perez Juarez, Victor: I vote to Mark  moderator and Mario secretary
[22.02.2012 17:07:08] Calderón, Mario: 8-)
[22.02.2012 17:07:27] Mark Ostermann: :D thats a nice way to find volunteers. just vote for them
[22.02.2012 17:07:56] Schöneberg, Tobias: @Victor. good idea, +1 from me ;)
[22.02.2012 17:08:06] Perez Juarez, Victor: +1
[22.02.2012 17:08:38] Calderón, Mario: ok let's start then
[22.02.2012 17:08:47] Mark Ostermann: ok, let me do both. i'll create the meeting minutes afterwards too
[22.02.2012 17:09:01] Mark Ostermann: as i remember mario did the last one(s)
[22.02.2012 17:09:15] Mark Ostermann: so lets give him a break
[22.02.2012 17:09:19] Mark Ostermann: ok?
[22.02.2012 17:09:30] Calderón, Mario: +1
[22.02.2012 17:10:13] Mark Ostermann: teo wont take part today, he has to go to police to find the motherf**ker that crashed his car
[22.02.2012 17:10:18] Perez Juarez, Victor: ok
[22.02.2012 17:10:23 | Bearbeitet 17:10:38] Mark Ostermann: he will be here next time
[22.02.2012 17:10:58] Mark Ostermann: ok lets start with todays topic
[22.02.2012 17:11:08] Perez Juarez, Victor: we require many people with that spirit
[22.02.2012 17:11:11 | Bearbeitet 17:12:14] Mark Ostermann: a) what are the next steps towards 3.8
[22.02.2012 17:11:33 | Bearbeitet 17:12:21] Mark Ostermann: b) which improvements can be gathered by all of us
[22.02.2012 17:11:38] Mark Ostermann: and from community
[22.02.2012 17:11:57 | Bearbeitet 17:12:34] Mark Ostermann: c) what steps to motivate community work (besides tt/ ft members)?
[22.02.2012 17:12:02] Perez Juarez, Victor: I propose a date to accept new contribution and start to setup with new release , it is propouse plan
[22.02.2012 17:12:33] Perez Juarez, Victor: release first a short version 371 with patchs for 360 and 370
[22.02.2012 17:13:20] Perez Juarez, Victor: and schedule the release 3.8.0. March that is first quarter
[22.02.2012 17:14:00] Perez Juarez, Victor: so current bugfix are into the hotfix/3.7.1
[22.02.2012 17:14:28] Perez Juarez, Victor: and the new functionality are into each feature branch
[22.02.2012 17:15:52] Mark Ostermann: ok, so when we would like to try to stick to our planned schedules we should release a 371 and then take 4 months for 380. correct?
[22.02.2012 17:16:21 | Bearbeitet 17:18:22] Mark Ostermann: 3 months implementation/ integration and 1 month stabilization
[22.02.2012 17:17:23] Mark Ostermann: correct?
[22.02.2012 17:17:33] Mark Ostermann: any opinions?
[22.02.2012 17:17:48] Perez Juarez, Victor: I think that we should release before the elections :)
[22.02.2012 17:18:26] Calderón, Mario: I'd suggest to release 3.8 sooner
[22.02.2012 17:18:30] Schöneberg, Tobias:  think it's realistic
[22.02.2012 17:19:31] Mark Ostermann: @mario: what do you have in mind with "sooner"?
[22.02.2012 17:19:46] Calderón, Mario: sooner than 4 months
[22.02.2012 17:20:25] Mark Ostermann: @victor: they are in august i believe
[22.02.2012 17:20:36] Perez Juarez, Victor: I also think that this new release should be used to reinforce citizenship
[22.02.2012 17:20:59] Mark Ostermann: ;) i dont' think we should schedule the release because of elections
[22.02.2012 17:21:29] Mark Ostermann: let's give the release enough time to allow people to work in team better again
[22.02.2012 17:21:42] Calderón, Mario: I meant, if we progam too much time, it will take longer
[22.02.2012 17:21:43] Mark Ostermann: thats why i suggested 4 months
[22.02.2012 17:22:13] Mark Ostermann: because we will have enough to do to encourage people
[22.02.2012 17:22:17] Mark Ostermann: to participate
[22.02.2012 17:22:22] Calderón, Mario: right
[22.02.2012 17:22:27] Calderón, Mario: so?
[22.02.2012 17:22:53] Perez Juarez, Victor: yes I am agree,
[22.02.2012 17:24:42] Mark Ostermann: has anybody started to gather topics for next release?
[22.02.2012 17:24:52] Calderón, Mario: yes, I think
[22.02.2012 17:24:55] Mark Ostermann: i remeber that norbert has been asked a few weeks ago
[22.02.2012 17:25:22] Mark Ostermann: and i gave him some topics from us which we can contribute
[22.02.2012 17:26:12] Calderón, Mario: by the way Mark, I saw a beautiful collaboration functionality that Teo and Christina were testing on the Conference
[22.02.2012 17:26:30] Calderón, Mario: would it be a possible item?
[22.02.2012 17:28:11 | Bearbeitet 17:29:02] Mark Ostermann: @mario: ?! what did it look like ?! about effort booking, and task organisation?
[22.02.2012 17:28:20] Perez Juarez, Victor: should we pulbic a road map
[22.02.2012 17:29:26] Perez Juarez, Victor: I ask to Steven of Adaxa to review your contributions and can integrate into development
[22.02.2012 17:29:50] Calderón, Mario: @Mark: it was on the ZK an addition (scheduler etc.)
[22.02.2012 17:30:11] Perez Juarez, Victor: so I am working to integrate into our repository , so we have a lot the improves
[22.02.2012 17:30:21] Mark Ostermann: ah, ok. yes thats beautiful. ... but still needs improvements ;)
[22.02.2012 17:30:41] Mark Ostermann: is one of the contributions on our list
[22.02.2012 17:30:55] Mark Ostermann: but not the first bunch we decided
[22.02.2012 17:31:05] Perez Juarez, Victor: yes but we need go with open source stategy release early
[22.02.2012 17:32:09] Calderón, Mario: should we put up an official wiki page with the list?
[22.02.2012 17:32:19] Mark Ostermann: we wanted to start with other ones first, as i remeber. and if we get through these quick push further functionality then
[22.02.2012 17:32:37] Perez Juarez, Victor: I think that we had jira to show the road map
[22.02.2012 17:32:38] Calderón, Mario: As far as I know, there are contribs from many people
[22.02.2012 17:33:09] Perez Juarez, Victor: so we should can a embeded page into the AD main wiki
[22.02.2012 17:35:49] Perez Juarez, Victor: we require a process to streamline the peer review and approval, so that I propouse create a workflow in jira to covert this need , so the procedure would be:
[22.02.2012 17:36:06] Perez Juarez, Victor: 1.- create the feature branch
[22.02.2012 17:36:25] Perez Juarez, Victor: 2.-create the wiki page documentation for the contribution
[22.02.2012 17:36:55] Perez Juarez, Victor: 3.- request the peer review to technical team and define a deadline
[22.02.2012 17:37:18] Calderón, Mario: on the other hand, we have to organize the test.
For one thing, I suggest that the branch used to test is built every night and it should be accessed by everybody, so people don't have difficulties/excuses to test.
[22.02.2012 17:37:19] Perez Juarez, Victor: 4.- if the peer review is ok then the workflow send the notification to Funcional Team
[22.02.2012 17:38:00] Perez Juarez, Victor: the functional team should have someway to testing the contribution , is here where ADv server can help
[22.02.2012 17:38:11] Mark Ostermann: @mario: good idea
[22.02.2012 17:38:48] Perez Juarez, Victor: 5. the funcional team approve , then the requestion return the funcional team to integrate into the development branch
[22.02.2012 17:39:42] Schöneberg, Tobias: [Mittwoch, 22. Februar 2012 17:37] Calderón, Mario: 

<<< For one thing, I suggest that the branch used to test is built every nightbasically we have this already on jenkins.adempiere.de
[22.02.2012 17:40:21] Perez Juarez, Victor: 6. if the contribution is not accept , some member of functional team need send a comunicate the contributor exaplant the reason because your contribution was not included , so that he can improve or correct the observations
[22.02.2012 17:41:26] Perez Juarez, Victor: 7.- we shedule the release 3.8.0 with the contributions tested and  accepted
[22.02.2012 17:41:53] Mark Ostermann: @victor: 1-6 i agree
[22.02.2012 17:42:13] Mark Ostermann: but 7 i would suggest to not do this way
[22.02.2012 17:42:40] Mark Ostermann: why not scheduling release 3.8 for specific date and taking everything that is completed then
[22.02.2012 17:42:55 | Bearbeitet 17:43:38] Mark Ostermann: the roadmap is a plan for the release
[22.02.2012 17:43:15] Mark Ostermann: the release notes will show what has been fulfilled
[22.02.2012 17:43:25] Mark Ostermann: wdyt?
[22.02.2012 17:43:41 | Bearbeitet 17:43:55] Calderón, Mario: @Tobi: I don't mean the official release, but the test (development?) branch. Do you mean also that? If so, can you pass me the URL to access?
[22.02.2012 17:43:45] Perez Juarez, Victor: we can will say that receipt a lot the contributions so that the release that is schedule release only will be include the contributions tested and  accepted
[22.02.2012 17:45:11] Schöneberg, Tobias: @Mario..let me check, one sec
[22.02.2012 17:45:19] Mark Ostermann: @victor: so 7. should be "only contributions that are accepted and tested will go into release"?
[22.02.2012 17:45:26] Mark Ostermann: thats fine for me
[22.02.2012 17:46:09] Mark Ostermann: but the schedule can be set even without knowing what will be released
[22.02.2012 17:46:18] Mark Ostermann: thats important
[22.02.2012 17:46:31] Schöneberg, Tobias: @Mario: this is the job for our development-branch: http://jenkins.adempiere.de/job/adempiere-stabilization/
[22.02.2012 17:46:32] Perez Juarez, Victor: the roadmap are into the http://adempiere.atlassian.net/
[22.02.2012 17:46:50 | Bearbeitet 17:47:29] Mark Ostermann: and the roadmap can even grow during the 4 months
[22.02.2012 17:46:58] Mark Ostermann: the more people we encourage
[22.02.2012 17:47:26] Calderón, Mario: @Tobi: great! thanks.
[22.02.2012 17:47:42] Schöneberg, Tobias: we can as well build other branches, but unless I'm mistaken, this is where the contributions would go for final integration testing (after they have been approved by FT and TT)
[22.02.2012 17:47:43] Perez Juarez, Victor: you can go agily and check the plan board to 3.7.1 and 3.8.0 , so we can say that is tentative plant and we are working to release the 3.8.0
[22.02.2012 17:47:56] Mark Ostermann: yepp
[22.02.2012 17:48:54] Perez Juarez, Victor: so if some contribution is not include in the original plant this will move to next release becasue the provation cycle was not enough
[22.02.2012 17:49:03] Mark Ostermann: yes, correct
[22.02.2012 17:49:17] Mark Ostermann: ok guys, i have to go in 12 mins
[22.02.2012 17:49:30] Mark Ostermann: so lets bring things together
[22.02.2012 17:49:49 | Bearbeitet 17:58:55] Mark Ostermann: a) schedule for 371? -> end of march 2012
a1) releasemanager victor/ peer review teo
a2) test organizer mario
[22.02.2012 17:50:09 | Bearbeitet 18:09:48] Mark Ostermann: b) schedule for 380? -> 30th june 2012
b1) contributions gathering/ call for 380
[22.02.2012 17:50:34] Perez Juarez, Victor: 371 I think end march is ok
[22.02.2012 17:50:37] Mark Ostermann: c) who creates the workflow in jira? (suggestion from victor)
[22.02.2012 17:51:02] Perez Juarez, Victor: I will create the workflow in jira
[22.02.2012 17:51:19] Perez Juarez, Victor: I need learn but this not is problem for me
[22.02.2012 17:51:44] Mark Ostermann: d) everybody here starts to describe contributions which shall be planned for 380 roadmap and works through suggested workflow
[22.02.2012 17:52:08] Calderón, Mario: schedule for 371 asap, I would say
[22.02.2012 17:52:14] Mark Ostermann: @victor: great. please contact teo if you need help
[22.02.2012 17:52:25] Mark Ostermann: i believe he has already done some experience
[22.02.2012 17:53:25] Mark Ostermann: who will be releasemanager for 371?
[22.02.2012 17:53:48] Mark Ostermann: volunteers?
[22.02.2012 17:54:18] Mark Ostermann: I suggest victor for releasemanager for 371.
[22.02.2012 17:54:20] Mark Ostermann: ;)
[22.02.2012 17:54:28] Calderón, Mario: one oth the tecchies
[22.02.2012 17:56:16] Schöneberg, Tobias: @Mark good idea, +1 :)
[22.02.2012 17:57:06] Perez Juarez, Victor: I can make nop problem, but need tester :)
[22.02.2012 17:57:27] Perez Juarez, Victor: and the Teo help to peer revision
[22.02.2012 17:57:37] Mark Ostermann: ok, great
[22.02.2012 17:57:44] Perez Juarez, Victor: here I had a importat subject
[22.02.2012 17:57:57] Calderón, Mario: I can orginize the tests
[22.02.2012 17:58:03] Perez Juarez, Victor: we should  call the citizen to help
[22.02.2012 17:58:39] Perez Juarez, Victor: and we would will say that is a way to remain as active citizen
[22.02.2012 18:00:20 | Bearbeitet 18:00:38] Mark Ostermann: @victor: i can see what you want to achieve
[22.02.2012 18:00:32] Perez Juarez, Victor: I think we should want in the comunnity real citizens involved and help the project, the rest can be considered as the fans, so this plan should be use to clean the citizen list
[22.02.2012 18:00:56] Perez Juarez, Victor: we can create a fans list :)
[22.02.2012 18:01:00] Mark Ostermann: :D
[22.02.2012 18:01:13] Trifonov, Trifon: and after this fans of the fans list :)
[22.02.2012 18:01:13] Mark Ostermann: "i like it" buttons
[22.02.2012 18:01:19] Calderón, Mario: good idea Victor: can we make the announcement reminding the citizens that a way of keeping the citizenship or becoming a citizen is to collaborate, for example in testing!!!
[22.02.2012 18:01:41] Calderón, Mario: because the testing takes a long time
[22.02.2012 18:02:02] Calderón, Mario: and the more people testing , the sooner we release
[22.02.2012 18:02:30] Mark Ostermann: suggestion: lets first setup 371, 380 schedule, workflow, contributions, invitations for participation
[22.02.2012 18:02:47] Calderón, Mario: @Trifon: (party)
[22.02.2012 18:02:51] Mark Ostermann: then see how many others participate
[22.02.2012 18:03:25] Mark Ostermann: and if not enough then discuss suggested consequences of not helping in public forum
[22.02.2012 18:03:47] Mark Ostermann: with the main aim to then get more volunteers
[22.02.2012 18:04:51 | Bearbeitet 18:05:10] Mark Ostermann: and if not then to open a poll for discussed and suggested consequences
[22.02.2012 18:05:04] Calderón, Mario: @Mark: we should motivate people to participate before we start testing
[22.02.2012 18:05:34 | Bearbeitet 18:06:51] Calderón, Mario: not after we see there are just a few (the usual suspects)...
[22.02.2012 18:05:55] Mark Ostermann: the main effort for now should be getting schedule up and running
[22.02.2012 18:07:55] Rooney, Colin: Can I suggest that we need to encourage more teamwork & the social aspects of the project - I am sure all you who attend the coneferences get that great buzz ...
[22.02.2012 18:08:13] Mark Ostermann: @colin: agree
[22.02.2012 18:08:17] Perez Juarez, Victor: the where we get volunters , we  know that our ask the comunnity always are only good intensions, we know who are here always
[22.02.2012 18:08:58] Rooney, Colin: so I think lots of "bug days" but with more specific goals ... We will test the Landed Costs on such a date & time .. meet us in IRC ... we'll test again this version and yo ucan login to our test webui version here
[22.02.2012 18:09:01] Rooney, Colin: etc etc tec
[22.02.2012 18:09:03] Rooney, Colin: make it easy
[22.02.2012 18:09:05] Rooney, Colin: make it fun
[22.02.2012 18:09:12] Rooney, Colin: make it friendly!
[22.02.2012 18:09:39] Trifonov, Trifon: yes. i also think that fun is what is missing last days in the project.
[22.02.2012 18:09:50] Rooney, Colin: and on the day be organised ... when someone appears have a task
[22.02.2012 18:09:51] Trifonov, Trifon: this mercurial and all this branches are killing me.
[22.02.2012 18:09:54] Calderón, Mario: great! good idea!
[22.02.2012 18:10:16] Calderón, Mario: @Colin: you seem to be a good "diplomat". Can you take over this task?
[22.02.2012 18:10:25] Perez Juarez, Victor: are the same , There are many on the list that were included to win an election, so we have a legitimate way to clean this list of active and inactive citizens :)
[22.02.2012 18:10:30] Rooney, Colin: I realise I say this as someone who has not been involved .. these days I have not done any Admepiere work for a very long time so I now it is easy for me to sit here and say things like this
[22.02.2012 18:11:01] Rooney, Colin: yeah well inviting the citizens to particiipate in specific tesyting days is not a bad idea
[22.02.2012 18:11:19] Rooney, Colin: if Colin did some work priovoiusly or reported some bugs in the area of landed costs
[22.02.2012 18:11:38] Rooney, Colin: ask me to help withthat specific testing
[22.02.2012 18:11:53] Rooney, Colin: it's a lot of organisation but I think that is what might be needed
[22.02.2012 18:13:09] Rooney, Colin: My problem is I haven't worked with Adempiere ina very long time so I know a lot less these days ... especially about what is happening. even the nercurial .. like Trifon I struggle to get my head around it :)
[22.02.2012 18:13:19] Perez Juarez, Victor: well here I do not speak to expel anyone just to define the list of active and inactive citizens, of course only active citizen should have right to vote to any desition of the project
[22.02.2012 18:13:32] Rooney, Colin: anyway ,y point wa sit's difficult to switch to Adempiere for a few hours now and then
[22.02.2012 18:13:40] Rooney, Colin: I will help as best I can
[22.02.2012 18:14:09] Rooney, Colin: I would certainly stick in IRC and help people get going with the testing etc
[22.02.2012 18:14:58 | Bearbeitet 18:15:35] Mark Ostermann: @colin: great. any help is very appreciated. and i strongly believe that you haven't forgot too much about adempiere and erp in the last time ;)
[22.02.2012 18:15:01] Perez Juarez, Victor: @Trifon why is the problem with mercurial is very simple , I can show how are work if you want :)
[22.02.2012 18:15:40] Rooney, Colin: @Victor, no, I make no accusations just a suggestion that happened to come after your comment.  And yes emailing citizens and asking for help is legitmate
[22.02.2012 18:15:48] Schöneberg, Tobias: sry guys, i need to leave..
[22.02.2012 18:16:01] Mark Ostermann: me too
[22.02.2012 18:16:17] Rooney, Colin: a frienbdly I cannot that day might be all the response required ... no answre might indicate an "expired" citizenship okay
[22.02.2012 18:16:40] Calderón, Mario: @Tobi: sorry, I think I didn't express myself correctly.
What I meant was that the development brach were installed and running, so everybody could call the URL and test directly, without needing to install.
[22.02.2012 18:17:28] Schöneberg, Tobias: @Mario: like this: http://asds2.adempiere.de:8080/webui/ ? :)
[22.02.2012 18:17:38] Mark Ostermann: i will create the meeting minutes tomorrow and send them to our mailing lists and put the volunteers and dates into the topics
[22.02.2012 18:17:50 | Bearbeitet 18:18:05] Calderón, Mario: @Tobi: yes
[22.02.2012 18:18:00] Rooney, Colin: bye Tobi
[22.02.2012 18:18:00] Mark Ostermann: so if something isn't correct please just let me know
[22.02.2012 18:18:18] Perez Juarez, Victor: ok
[22.02.2012 18:18:25 | Bearbeitet 18:18:43] Calderón, Mario: (but this is for the 3.7 release, isn't it?)
[22.02.2012 18:18:28] Mark Ostermann: i'll let this conference open so i can follow if further details are discussed
[22.02.2012 18:18:37] Calderón, Mario: so we needed an additional one...
[22.02.2012 18:18:55] Mark Ostermann: @mario: for 371 first, yes
[22.02.2012 18:19:06] Mark Ostermann: then plan ... for 380
[22.02.2012 18:19:37] Perez Juarez, Victor: the issue now is that each new feature is into a branch
[22.02.2012 18:19:57] Perez Juarez, Victor: and the hotfix are all bugfix for 3.7.1
[22.02.2012 18:20:05] Schöneberg, Tobias: currently, it the devlopment branch. but we can as well e.g. roll out 3.7.1
[22.02.2012 18:20:06] Perez Juarez, Victor: then we wouls start with this branch
[22.02.2012 18:20:27] Perez Juarez, Victor: we need  http://asds2.adempiere.de:8080/webui/ build for hotfix/3.7.1
[22.02.2012 18:20:43] Schöneberg, Tobias: sry, really got to leave. i'll read the logs..
[22.02.2012 18:20:44] Schöneberg, Tobias: bye
[22.02.2012 18:20:45] Mark Ostermann: bye everybody. cu
[22.02.2012 18:20:54] Calderón, Mario: bye Tobi
[22.02.2012 18:20:54] Perez Juarez, Victor: ok bye ye
[22.02.2012 18:21:01] Calderón, Mario: bye Mark
[22.02.2012 18:21:10] Rooney, Colin: bye Mark
[22.02.2012 18:21:18] Calderón, Mario: @Mark: you will take up this log later?=