Revision as of 12:29, 28 April 2010

Date: 2010-04-28
Time: 7AM GMT
Venue: irc #adempiere-team
Support Spreadsheet: Adempiere PMC Architecture
Chat times in GMT+8

Agenda

• Review wishlist (reordered): I see 4 "areas" of work in the gigh prio topics:
  • Migration stability #8,9,27
  • OSGi #1,25,29
  • Security #11
  • Performance #2,7 (already tackled)
• Proposal:
  • Create a "project" for each and concentrate work there
  • Add corresponding tasks to task list
• Review
  • 8 weeks are over: Can we improve PMC Arch Group somehow?
  • Are we doing the right things?
• Proposal:
  • Start an OI inquiry: What is required to make ADempiere easily salesable?
  • add results to wish list

Summary

Chat

(14:55) viola: good morning
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(14:57) hengsin_: hi
(14:57) viola: hello!
(14:58) hengsin_: hi Jorg, just curious, do you own ObjectCode or you just work there ?
(14:59) viola: I own it together with three friends of mine
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(14:59) viola: what about you?
(15:00) hengsin_: I run a team here ( Malaysia ) for Idalica Copr, US
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(15:00) viola: aha how big is the team?
(15:00) *** You are now known as hengsin.
(15:01) viola: and is adempiere your only business?
(15:01) hengsin: at the moment, yes  :)
(15:01) viola: I see
(15:02) viola: you own a new house now?
(15:02) viola: transition went well?
(15:02) hengsin: yeap, still thinking what 2 do with the other
(15:03) hengsin: moving from an apartment to a 2 storey linked house
(15:03) viola: huhu - adempiere business work well  ;-)
(15:03) hengsin: haha ... I guess it is more correct to say it is own by the bank  :)
(15:04) viola:  :-)
(15:04) viola: Did you read last weeks summary?
(15:04) viola: Any questiions or things to add?
(15:04) viola: +
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(15:08) viola: Ok - Agenda for todays meeting is here: http://www.adempiere.com/index.php/PMC_Architecture_Meeting_20100428
(15:08) hengsin: yeap, it is ok, just have to wait for carlos now
(15:08) viola: Any additions or changes?
(15:09) hengsin: hi Paul
(15:09) hengsin: hmm .. it is already 15:10, anyone knows whether Carlos is available ?
(15:10) viola: no info about that here
(15:10) viola: hengsin: maybe we could already start with some more techy issues
(15:11) phib: hi hengsin, viola
(15:11) viola: hi paul!
(15:11) hengsin: ok, meanwhile, I have a question for you. for the ejb, have you decided which path to go ? osgi or web serivce ?
(15:11) viola: I currently investigate eclipse riena and ECF
(15:11) viola: I would like to use distributed OSGi services
(15:12) viola: and have a soap or rest API also
(15:12) viola: ECF seems to be a flexible choice
(15:12) viola: But:
(15:13) viola: We only have StatusBean and ServerBean as EJBs
(15:13) hengsin: yeap, I've read that, looks great. only thing is our osgi port would be stable anytime soon and we can't get rid of the application server dependency in our next release
(15:13) hengsin: I means wouldn't be
(15:13) viola: And I cannot believe their functionality is really required
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(15:14) viola: correct
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(15:15) viola: But anyone can go ahead and provide some interface
(15:16) hengsin: ic, do you think it worth the effort to trial using the existing web service code we have ?
(15:16) viola: any delegation for OSGi can be added later simply
(15:16) viola: havnt take a look at that
(15:17) hengsin: Paul, what's your opinion on this ?
(15:17) viola: what infrastructure is used there?
(15:18) hengsin: Jorg, it is using xfire and soap
(15:19) hengsin: and xmlbeans too
(15:19) phib: we've been using the existing web service code and it seems fairly stable
(15:19) phib: not sure what is required to replace the ServerBean functionality
(15:20) phib: What is the advantage of ECF?
(15:20) hengsin: Paul, AFAIK, the existing web service code provide everything that ServerBean have so we should be able to do a direct replacement
(15:20) viola: ECF is only relevant for OSGi
(15:21) viola: ??? then why not simply use it?
(15:21) hengsin: yeah, Jorg, that's what I'm asking here  :)
(15:22) hengsin: Paul, feel free to correct me if that's not the case.
(15:24) phib: I haven't looked closely at it -- we've used it for CRUD and invoking processes, nothing else.
(15:24) phib: Isn't there any issue with upgrading the library though?
(15:25) viola: XFree is now CXF - lots of changes
(15:25) hengsin: If we goes that path, I would like to drop all application server dependency too.
(15:25) hengsin: yeah, the migration to cxf is not trivial.
(15:26) hengsin: I guess we can stick with xfire and soap until someone have the time to move that over
(15:26) viola: can anyone explain to my why emails and processes must be run on a server? - why not simply start them from the client? and completely remove these remote functionalities
(15:27) hengsin: for email, sometime the mail server is not reachable from the client
(15:27) viola: would mean this client machine cannot send *any* email - this seems to be an exceptional case
(15:28) viola: understand me right - I simply want to KISS
(15:29) hengsin: Jorg, it is actually more for us, most of our client don't use the swing client  :)
(15:30) hengsin: I means we are more eager to drop those stuff but I know other still used it  :)
(15:30) viola: then we should ask implementors if it can be dropped
(15:30) viola: I think we do not have enough resources to work on features rarely used...
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(15:31) hengsin: ok, somehow we comeback to the OI stuff again  :)
(15:32) viola: sigh - sorry
(15:32) viola:  ;-)
(15:32) viola: Well I simply want to know whether I have to take the server into account for OSGi
(15:32) hengsin: lets put web service replacement as the path for now, we can discuss its priority again when the OI things is being define better.
(15:33) viola: ok
(15:33) viola: ahm hengsin - did you make any progress in this model class proxy issue?
(15:33) hengsin: Jorg, I guess for your osgi development, we can drop that and put in some dummy stub for now
(15:34) hengsin: no, not yet. hardly do any architecture related task in the pass few week, too busy with private matters and the zk client work.
(15:34) viola: I see
(15:34) hengsin: but I've moved now and should be able to find more time for things
(15:35) viola: I am currently working against May 14. This is the code freeze date right?
(15:35) hengsin: yeap, that's what we agree last time but I guess it seems now that also depends how the OI effort goes
(15:36) viola: I'd ignore that  ;-) on may 14, I want a PoC for the swing client with most basic questoins solved
(15:36) viola: and my feeling is i'm near
(15:37) hengsin: Jorg, do you agree with my proposal above, just put in dummy stub for the remote services ?
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(15:37) viola: Oh sorry didn't answer it because I took it for granted - yes I'd do it that way!
(15:38) hengsin: ok, can be as simple as a class that throw NotImplemented exception  :)
(15:38) viola: well may it is even easier to implement it as a local service
(15:38) phib: what other basic questions remain?
(15:39) hengsin: if we can drop the jboss stuff, the installation package size will cut by half
(15:39) viola: basic things yet to tackle:
(15:39) viola: - how to deal with model classes provided by a plugin?
(15:40) viola: - provide a nontrivial prototype plugin - will be accounting
(15:40) viola: - provide some deployment option for the web client (just added as hengsin wants to drop jboss completely  ;-) )
(15:40) viola: and that should be it.
(15:41) viola: for the PoC - then it must be tested and used by more people
(15:41) viola: ah and forgot: Use hengsins new 2pack for plugin installation
(15:43) phib: have you started work on the prototype plugin?
(15:45) viola: I have some trivial ones laying around and discussed interfaces with carlos - not yet really started
(15:46) viola: but it will not be exiting I guess - simply have an Extension Point for Doc_*-classes
(15:46) viola: and provide a plugin with the current ones as default
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(15:46) viola: but they will then call back into core for the real work
(15:47) viola: Why that? - It is hard to really move code in the branch - I would delay that after trunk integration
(15:48) phib: ?
(15:48) viola:  ;-) why ?
(15:49) viola: I am in a branch with the OSGi code
(15:49) viola: If I now move a class out of the core into a plugin project....
(15:49) viola: do you imagine: that would lead to a merging hell
(15:50) viola: or do you have a recipe for that?
(15:50) phib: No magic bullet. Sorry.
(15:50) hengsin: mergine hell is fun  :)
(15:50) phib: I'd like to help but I feel out of my depth with the OSGI stuff
(15:51) viola: grrr hengsin
(15:51) viola: no - to be honest
(15:51) phib: I haven't had time to do more than check out your branch and go through your tutorial (thanks!)
(15:51) viola: i think the *real* code reorg must not take place in the branch but in the trunk
(15:52) viola: but thts fine - did it work?
(15:52) phib: yeah, I got it running  ;-)
(15:52) viola: ok I think meeting is over or anything to add?
(15:53) hengsin: no, bye Jorg
(15:53) hengsin: Paul, looks good to you ?
(15:54) phib: Yeah. I'll try to have a look at what's needed to replace ejb with webservices over the coming week...
(15:54) hengsin: Paul, just curious, is most Adaxa client on swing ? if yes, what's the deployment model there ? webstart ?
(15:54) phib: webstart and terminal services
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(15:54) phib: a couple are now starting to use zk thanks to your good work
(15:54) hengsin: oic, agree terminal services is a good alternative.
(15:56) hengsin: for me, webstart is still quite buggy, amazing that sun just couldn't make it rock solid over the years.
(15:56) phib: here we have reasonable bandwidth available -- it helps!
(15:56) trifon: our users are mostly on web start.
(15:56) trifon: installaation in local network
(15:56) trifon: that's why we put features in siwng first.
(15:57) phib: trifon: same here, but I guess now we have customers using zk I'm going to have to learn
(15:57) trifon:  :)
(15:57) hengsin: trifon, yeah, that's the challenge of a global project  :)
(15:58) hengsin: at least, we don't have an android client to maintain yet  :)
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(15:59) hengsin: trifon: do you get any request for a mobile client over there ?
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(15:59) hengsin: hi Carlos, you are late  :)
(16:00) CarlosRuiz: ?
(16:00) hengsin: hmm ... late for the architecture meeting .. or no ?
(16:00) CarlosRuiz: holy FSM - my cell phone synchronized with wrong DST
(16:00) milos_t: hi all
(16:01) CarlosRuiz: I'm really sorry