CC Meeting Full 20070213

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hengsin: hi carlos
CarlosRuiz: Hi
hengsin: carlos, what is today theme ? the tracker ?
goa|work ahora se llama goanookie
CarlosRuiz: we can choose one of the themes here:
CarlosRuiz: http://sourceforge.net/forum/message.php?msg_id=4141153
CarlosRuiz: and Karsten added client security to the list
CarlosRuiz: are we ready? which theme do you prefer for today?
hengsin: the 3.2 status and the tracker
CarlosRuiz: is teo_sarca here?
teo_sarca: hello all
teo_sarca: i am here
goanookie: hi all
teo_sarca: now
CarlosRuiz: Hi Peter
hengsin: so victor and trifon would not join today ?
AFalcone [n=AFalcone@190.49.108.234] ha entrado en la sala.
CarlosRuiz: I don't think so, maybe Victor can arrive later
CarlosRuiz: ok, what do you think is the status of stability?
Ramiro [n=chatzill@dataminela.manquehue.net] ha entrado en la sala.
AFalcone: Hi all
CarlosRuiz: Hi Alejandro and Ramiro
Ramiro: hi CarlosRuiz
goanookie: CarlosRuiz, from what I can tell, as an end-user, a lot of improvement has been made
goanookie: but it is hard to compare with the different dbs
CarlosRuiz: but I think that lots of testing are still needed
hengsin: there are functional area and framework ( UI and Persistence, etc), the framework area have improve a lot but we lack testing on the functional area
goanookie: indeed, we should have a set of 'standard' functional test
Bahman [i=savirc@82.99.197.76] ha entrado en la sala.
Bahman: Hi all!
Bahman: Sorry! I'm a bit late.
CarlosRuiz: Hi Bahman
hengsin: and we have to define the scope of 3.2, otherwise it will never go out of the door
vpj-cd [n=vpj-cd@200.65.102.143] ha entrado en la sala.
hengsin: and yes, the nightly build to facilitate testing.
vpj-cd: Hi
goanookie: hi Bahman and victor
CarlosRuiz: Hi Victor
Ramiro: can i suggest something for increase the functional testing activity?
Bahman: Hi Victor!
CarlosRuiz: please Ramiro
Ramiro: increase=increasing
Ramiro: we need either an ava or a freenx enviorment
Ramiro: where normal end users can test the latest release
goanookie: can we use the nightly build for that purpose ?
CarlosRuiz: yes, Hengsin called yesterday for resources to construct nightly build
vpj-cd: the other option is schema to paatch
vpj-cd: patch
Ramiro: well, whatever we need to test functionality should be easy to access for end users
Ramiro: funtionality=funtionally
AFalcone: how can we test the different DB?
vpj-cd: the problem is long time you need to nightly build
CarlosRuiz: this is one point Ramiro, but honestly I don't see resources testing anyway
vpj-cd: you need time to download and install create new db and setup agin the environmnet
CarlosRuiz: but very fewe people are reporting issues even with tagged releases
Ramiro: exactly victor
vpj-cd: the may be we need one good system to pach
goanookie: and if we launch a call for testers ?
vpj-cd: patch
hengsin: we have company listing themselve as service provider for Adempiere, they should help
vpj-cd: the user only need download patch in code or sql
Ramiro: i would commit some resources for testing if they did not have to do everything from scartch
vpj-cd: and applay
CarlosRuiz: I think we must set up some version to be release candidate
vpj-cd: this is more easy I think
Ramiro: OFB can help but we need to make this easy for us and everybody else
CarlosRuiz: trunk is changing a lot every day
CarlosRuiz: even with nightly build this can be a problem
Ramiro: i am sure idalica and others can help as well
vpj-cd: yes I lived this with JJ
CarlosRuiz: so I think we must mark a release candidate, then call for testing on that release, and freeze the development on trunk for some days
CarlosRuiz: and release patches as Victor proposed
AFalcone: yes Carlos, you are right
vpj-cd: the problem is the user want use nightly build to production
goanookie: 3 weeks of development and 1 week freeze ?
vpj-cd: then is complex
CarlosRuiz: I think patches can be easily released, the mechanism is there with patches.jar
vpj-cd: yes is rigth
vpj-cd: orf simple diff
teo_sarca: patches.jar as i know are not working...
vpj-cd: we can create a bash to this is easy and fast
CarlosRuiz: I mean a patch easily installed on server and clients, without recompiling
teo_sarca: with webstart
hengsin: I think a freeze follow by testing phase is ok, would prefer not to use the patch mechanism for testing as it add one extra variable.
CarlosRuiz: Teo, Hengsin made a change to integrate patches in Adempiere.jar, so I think that must be working with webstart too
vpj-cd: we can maked a bash to rplace the clas with error into jar Adempiere.jar and a patch to SQL
hengsin: if no changes to database, just Adempiere.jar would do
vpj-cd: maked = will make
CarlosRuiz: my intention is that patches.jar is very little to download
CarlosRuiz: and very easy to install
vpj-cd: the command jar you can replace any class , we only need sing again
vpj-cd: yes Carlos but this should replace the clas into Adempiere.jar
CarlosRuiz: and I think is better to stick Adempiere.jar in one version and have the control of installed patches out there
CarlosRuiz: that will ease support
vpj-cd: ok I agree with release cadidate
CarlosRuiz: if patches are applied in Adempiere.jar you finally can't know which patches the tester has applied
hengsin: carlos, I think patches should be use for emergency bug fixes not as a regular release mechanism
vpj-cd: all the model open source based in linux are working this way
CarlosRuiz: but it's very easy to read patches.jar to see what has been applied
teo_sarca: carlos, and how should this be : one single patch.jar that will grow up (if there are multiple patches)
teo_sarca: ?
CarlosRuiz: Hengsin, I'm proposing that for release candidate just for one or two weesk maybe
CarlosRuiz: weeks
vpj-cd: the problem is patchs.jar is if we have patch severe the engine print, workflow or any model
hengsin: you means one or two week from now ?
CarlosRuiz: yes Teo, we can release patches.jar in sourceforge every class changed
vpj-cd: I think is complex to manage the patch.jar
CarlosRuiz: no, one or two weeks when we set up the release candidate veresion
CarlosRuiz: what is the complexity Victor, people just download patches.jar from sf.net and put it into lib directory -> RUN_setup if you need it into server
AFalcone: ok, but can we stop the development at this moment? I mean stop to add new functionalities and concentrate only to solve some open bugs
vpj-cd: I think we can have 3 release candidate
CarlosRuiz: no, I would recommend to make the announcement
CarlosRuiz: give one or two weeks more for people integrating changes and enhancements
CarlosRuiz: and then freeze the version
hengsin: we should have a process to decide when a release candidate can be promoted to be a production release.
vpj-cd: but the release candidate , the fist release is after the fist Quality clicle
vpj-cd: cicle
hengsin: maybe a voting process base on the feedback from testing
AFalcone: what big changes are pending still?
CarlosRuiz: freepdf, a performance enhancement in trees
vpj-cd: fist we need have the Quality cicle
CarlosRuiz: lots of bugs in trackers (most of them harmless)
vpj-cd: we here detct the mian issue
CarlosRuiz: some contributions not integrated yet
hengsin: also the form transaction management from Victor
vpj-cd: and solve and release the release candidate 1
Ramiro: what is missing about freepdf???
CarlosRuiz: what is the form transaction management?
CarlosRuiz: itext version from freepdf has a big bug
hengsin: the VInvoiceGen and VInoutGen not using transaction
CarlosRuiz: Hengsin detected that is fixed in last version
hengsin: also freepdf is still using jPDF package name
vpj-cd: yes I am solve this problem
teo_sarca: ramiro, freepdf is not nice looking, i had some troubles with with local characters ....
CarlosRuiz: yes, trx management is important
CarlosRuiz: so, we can give 2 weeks more for integrate contributions, bugs, enhancements, etc ...
CarlosRuiz: then set up 315 as a release candidate, and freeze the trunk
CarlosRuiz: call community for testings, we change the trunk just for reported bugs
vpj-cd: ok I have a text to invite all comunity to begin Quality cicle
vpj-cd: we should to divide in business processes
hengsin: ok, agree
CarlosRuiz: and release fixed bugs as patches.jar while we release a new version
Ramiro: how about the suggestion for an ava or nx version for testing?
CarlosRuiz: with this strategy we could workaround the lack of nightly build
hengsin: carlos, it is less effort, if we just release a new Adempiere.jar
teo_sarca: carlos, why freeze the trunk and not with tags. Supose that you have detected a big bug. You release the patch.jar but where do you commit the sources, in tags ?
vpj-cd: Carlos I hav duobts How you raplace one class of core
CarlosRuiz: Teo, I mean freeze the trunk for enhancements
CarlosRuiz: open for bug fixing
teo_sarca: aaaaa, ok
CarlosRuiz: Hengsin, my worry is to know which "version" are people testing
hengsin: if we just release a new Adempiere.jar, the only downside is bigger file to download, otherwise the process is the same and less confusing.
CarlosRuiz: with Adempiere.jar you can't know that easily, with patches.jar is almost immediate
vpj-cd: Carlos but what i way to replace the class core
CarlosRuiz: people must report a bug with the listing of classes on patches.jar or something like that
vpj-cd: how solve this patch.jar this
vpj-cd: if I hav one patch in MInvoice.class
hengsin: carlos, this is not something every tester can do, it is better we add a timestamp or build date into the about dialog, which everyone can read and report.
vpj-cd: how I use the MInvoice the patch vs MInvoice the Adempiere.jar
vpj-cd: if wa what use patch.jar I think is best use via 2pack
CarlosRuiz: Victor, my idea is Adempiere.jar freezes with 315 version
CarlosRuiz: if MInvoice.class is changed we compile and put that class in patches.jar
teo_sarca: why not add the svn revision number ?
vpj-cd: yes this rigth Carlos
CarlosRuiz: yes, every "daily" release of patches.jar can change the Adempiere.java to show the svn revision
hengsin: yes, some indicator in the help -> about dialog or somewhere else in the screen would do.
vpj-cd: but you can say to java to use patches.jar vs adempiere.jar
CarlosRuiz: we did in version 313
CarlosRuiz: patches.jar is looked in classpath before Adempiere.jar
CarlosRuiz: and for server deployment patches.jar is integrated
vpj-cd: bu exist static logical in PO and M_Table
CarlosRuiz: is that a problem?
vpj-cd: to find org.compiere.model or org.adempiere.model when you call one model
hengsin: carlos, I still think it is better to release a adempiere.jar, it will take extra effort to build the patches.jar for very little gain. The version issue can be solve by having some indicator in the screen where user can read and report exactly which build the user is running on.
vpj-cd: yes even is easy create a bash to use command jar
vpj-cd: and replace the original class into any jar
CarlosRuiz: bash don't work in windows (without cygwin)
CarlosRuiz: and the install for users must be smooth
vpj-cd: we can to clear the sing to make th test
vpj-cd: Carlos we can use ant to make this task
CarlosRuiz: current Adempiere.jar is 6.18MB
CarlosRuiz: :-(
tamagoci [n=fabio@host8-124-static.30-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it] ha entrado en la sala.
CarlosRuiz: bigger monster every day :-)
tamagoci ha salido de la sala.
teo_sarca: (personally i break the Adempiere.jar in multiple jars....)
hengsin: unless we have tools to generate the patches.jar, otherwise it will be a messy process and error prone too.
CarlosRuiz: Hengsin, is there problems with static logic if we put classes out of Adempiere.jar ?
vpj-cd: is easy
vpj-cd: we generate patch.jar and ant script
teo_sarca: carlos, practical can be a problem
vpj-cd: the script unjar the class file and replace into Adempiere.jar
hengsin: having duplicate classes in your classpath can cause some rare problem but can't recall now what exactly it is.
teo_sarca: you can control how jboss will load the jars (as i know)
teo_sarca: also, when you are loading the application using webstart, which will be the order ?
vpj-cd: nad have one Manifiest into Aempiere.jar
vpj-cd: have the patch applay
CarlosRuiz: we currently have duplicate classes, jboss duplicate some needed classes
CarlosRuiz: and in jboss jar looks like those classes are obsolete
vpj-cd: yes the jboss is another problem
teo_sarca: but which ones
teo_sarca: suppose you have dupplicate classes ....
teo_sarca: persolally i overwrite classes on jboss
CarlosRuiz: btw, which version of jboss are we using, and which is the last version of jboss ?
teo_sarca: and about web start, as i know the main jar will be loaded first
CarlosRuiz: this is another "independence" issue - but for other meeting maybe
vpj-cd: ok because we investigated how is working this another programs
teo_sarca: so as a workaround, you need to copy Adempiere.class to patches.jar and make patches.jar the main jar.... which is somehow silly
vpj-cd: ie eclipse and netbenas
teo_sarca: (for webstart)
vpj-cd: and we make this way
CarlosRuiz: good point Teo
CarlosRuiz: that won't work
vpj-cd: we donot have reinvet the wheel
CarlosRuiz: ok, Hengsin, how is the mechanism to release a new Adempiere.jar ?
teo_sarca: why not extending 2pack ?
hengsin: carlos, it is the same, download and put into lib, run setup again and you are done.
CarlosRuiz: this is a quality assurance mechanism for just some weeks
CarlosRuiz: ok, and how we construct the Adempiere.jar nightly ?
hengsin: teo, out of scope, that means 3.2 will have to wait another 2 months :)
hengsin: that can be build using ant script, actually, in my day to day development, I don't use the build script in svn.
hengsin: I think teo is the same too :)
vpj-cd: mmm this depens the that fastr we make the test
CarlosRuiz: can we add a .bat / .sh for people construct easily the Adempiere.jar, or give instructions for that?
CarlosRuiz: and obviously we release permanently Adempiere.jar with last patches
hengsin: yes, that can be done. of course, if we have server that we can use for that will be the best.
CarlosRuiz: for changing signature version
hengsin: Idalica have suggest they can provide server ...
CarlosRuiz: every Adempiere.jar released must change the DATE_VERSION on Adempiere.java
CarlosRuiz: and if we need changes on database we must change DB_VERSION on Adempiere.java
vpj-cd: mmm I think we should disable singnature while we are testhing
vpj-cd: this way you can replace in hot
hengsin: yes, a build timestamp should do the job
vpj-cd: and you need not make th setup again
teo_sarca: yes
CarlosRuiz: unsafe?
hengsin: victor, good point, hot deployment work too, that's what I do normally.
CarlosRuiz: if it's not signed, it can't be accessed by SSL port ?
hengsin: yes not suitable for real production use.
CarlosRuiz: then I would prefer to keep the jarsigner there
hengsin: so for end-user, it is best to guide them the safe path, drop Adempiere.jar to lib and run setup again.
CarlosRuiz: agree
vpj-cd: yes this the problem
hengsin: hot deployment is for developer.
CarlosRuiz: ok, so we have a plan
vpj-cd: the other way is use setup silent
CarlosRuiz: we can put dates for the plan
CarlosRuiz: summarizing:
CarlosRuiz: >> we can give 2 weeks more for integrate contributions, bugs, enhancements, etc ...
CarlosRuiz: >> then set up 315 as a release candidate, and freeze the trunk
CarlosRuiz: >> call community for testings, we change the trunk just for reported bugs
CarlosRuiz: >> and release fixed bugs as Adempiere.jar while we release a new version
vpj-cd: ok can I the set the invite in the open forum to begin the QA cicle ?
Ramiro: how about the ava version???
CarlosRuiz: there are no resources for that Ramiro :-(
CarlosRuiz: or at least they hasn't shown
CarlosRuiz: AVA is still 312
Ramiro: who was the author of ava?
hengsin: kontro
Ramiro: seems that he got a job
vpj-cd: may be we can use installer
CarlosRuiz: Victor, we can think a way to invite people honouring them
vpj-cd: but now only have to linux
CarlosRuiz: Victor, the process of uploading in sf is slow
CarlosRuiz: I uploaded adempiere314.zip (>60MB) and someone else dropped from sf, directory is public :-(
CarlosRuiz: so I must repeat the process
CarlosRuiz: I think Adempiere.jar is ok
CarlosRuiz: 6MB must upload quickly
hengsin: shouldn't be too bad :)
CarlosRuiz: ok, how can we invite community to test massively?
CarlosRuiz: we can set up a wiki page honouring testers
CarlosRuiz: and putting above tester who report more bugs
vpj-cd: I have one text
CarlosRuiz: or give him a free license of freedf :-D
vpj-cd: first we need tester
vpj-cd: I think divide my cusult in bisness process
vpj-cd: bisness process
Ramiro: may be we can ask idalica to generate an nx environment
hengsin: lets use a centralised mechanism to honour contributor, developer, domain expert, tester, etc
Ramiro: for testing
Ramiro: i will ask Joel
vpj-cd: the need test all the this bisness process
hengsin: victor, can u put that up in wiki first so we can help to review.
CarlosRuiz: good idea Ramiro, take account that nx server has a limit for number of users
vpj-cd: the QA cicle will should test by adempiere partner
vpj-cd: fist
CarlosRuiz: that can be too
vpj-cd: e-evolution,idalica, global era , OFB , and any know the system
CarlosRuiz: partners that report bugs will have a special icon in wiki and adempierebusiness page
vpj-cd: should are the fist tester
vpj-cd: we need divide the work
vpj-cd: wth community also need test
vpj-cd: the problem is mouch have not user manul
teo_sarca: may i report the first huge bug ? :)
vpj-cd: manual
vpj-cd: then you test is very limited
CarlosRuiz: can we have a matrix in wiki for check basic testings, i.e. functionality vs database
hengsin: we should have a contribution rating for partner ( maybe just a few type of icon ) . And I think we must include all contributions ( development, testing, writing, etc ).
CarlosRuiz: agree
vpj-cd: Ramiro what is your expertice in this are
Ramiro: in what area victor?
CarlosRuiz: ok, can we put dates for the stages?
vpj-cd: how you maed the QA cicle in campany the propietary software
Ramiro: i was going to comment that if a tester needs the manual he is not going to be a good tester
Ramiro: wht we need is people that understand the business process
Ramiro: and can do end to end testing
hengsin: victor, the proprietary approach is to come up with unit test plan and functional test plan which then the tester will go through each of the items.
goanookie: what if we supply a certain test scenario and expected results, for novice end-users ?
Ramiro: the unit testing is mostly from developers
vpj-cd: Carlos I think the show the all community the big QA cicle give mouch confiance and goo image to adempiere
CarlosRuiz: target date for 315 and freeze the trunk for enhancements??
CarlosRuiz: maybe february 28??
Ramiro: while the integrated testing is based on funtional consultants
CarlosRuiz: agree Victor, we must publish that
Ramiro: is it time for our LA meeting?
hengsin: ok
vpj-cd: yes
vpj-cd: is 11 am to me
CarlosRuiz: ok, please agree with some dates and we can finish this meeting :-)
CarlosRuiz: february 28 for 315 ?
vpj-cd: ok is good to me
hengsin: I've agree :)
CarlosRuiz: then set up a matrix test page in wiki
vpj-cd: what is containt 315 ?
CarlosRuiz: convoke community for testing 315
CarlosRuiz: and give 2 weeks for testing
vpj-cd: Carlos Can I invite the QA cicle
CarlosRuiz: official 3.2. can be targeted for march 20 if there are no blocking bugs
teo_sarca: agree
vpj-cd: we can review and lauch my thest if you agree?
AFalcone: this is 14 March to end test
vpj-cd: thest = text
hengsin: agree
AFalcone: and one week more to release the 3.2
CarlosRuiz: yes Alejandro
goanookie: CarlosRuiz, if the launch in malaysia is happing, wouldn't that be an excellent time to release 3.2 ?
AFalcone: ok, i agree too
CarlosRuiz: what's the point Peter?
hengsin: when is the launch in Malaysia ?
Ramiro: late march to early may
goanookie: huge media attention
CarlosRuiz: Victor, can you set up the initial matrix wiki page for testings
CarlosRuiz: functionality vs. database
vpj-cd: this one draft to invite what do you think?
vpj-cd: Hi Adempiere People:
vpj-cd: As you know we are comitted with the most powerful ERP, among some other important issues, this implies to get a product free of bugs in order to our customers can run easily their business.
vpj-cd: We are inviting you to participate in a complete Quality Control Cycle of Adempiere, Ver. 3.1.1; to share your knowledge around the bugs you have detected, and the corrections you have done.
vpj-cd: This job must be finished in two months. In the first month we will detect the bugs and in the second month we will correct them.
vpj-cd: The topics you can work are:
vpj-cd: Implementation and Basic Settings
vpj-cd: Business Partners
vpj-cd: Taxes
vpj-cd: Products
vpj-cd: Purchasing
vpj-cd: Pricing
vpj-cd: Material Management
vpj-cd: Sales
vpj-cd: Payments, Receipts and Open Items
vpj-cd: Performance Analysis
vpj-cd: Costing
vpj-cd: Ingo and Reporting
hengsin: victor, please publish that in wiki so we can review later.
vpj-cd: The Multi’s
vpj-cd: Requests
vpj-cd: Projects
vpj-cd: Service
vpj-cd: Utilities
vpj-cd: Security
vpj-cd: Performance
vpj-cd: Manufacturing
vpj-cd: If you wish to offer a product that can be a solution for the problems of your customers and not to be part of another problem think the issues you are most interested in testing, and register your name to allocate the whole system.
vpj-cd: ok
CarlosRuiz: yes, better publish into wiki, and we can make comments there
vpj-cd: perfect
vpj-cd: ok perfect
CarlosRuiz: and let Red1 to review it too
vpj-cd: next what about the subject of rule engine ?
CarlosRuiz: Victor, can you set up the initial matrix wiki page for testings -> functionality vs. database
vpj-cd: ok rigth I will setup
CarlosRuiz: good, we we conclude this meeting if you agree? to go to #adempiere-LA :-)
vpj-cd: you agree in named this as Quality Control Cycle of Adempiere,
vpj-cd: ok
hengsin: we should only talk about post 3.2 item ( rule engine, etc ) later .. probably only after 3.2 is out.
CarlosRuiz: ok
hengsin: just Release Cycle would do.
vpj-cd: ok
CarlosRuiz: there are points that we can include in 315
CarlosRuiz: maybe we can talk a little about client security as karsten proposed
CarlosRuiz: -> in next meeting
vpj-cd: ok
vpj-cd: good
CarlosRuiz: and I think that we need a system parameter table
CarlosRuiz: see you next week team
vpj-cd: AFalcone you are in #Adempiere-la
CarlosRuiz: very good and productive meeting
AFalcone: yes Victor
vpj-cd: ok
CarlosRuiz: #adempiere-LA ? is case sensitive?
hengsin: how about the tracker ? I've one issue with the tracker now that I've receiving lots of email from the posterita activities ...
vpj-cd: I set adempiere-la
goanookie: CarlosRuiz, indeed case sensitive
AFalcone: yes Carlos
AFalcone: #Adempiere-LA Carlos
vpj-cd: I only see Carlos and low :-)
AFalcone: jajaja
vpj-cd: but
AFalcone: we are in Adempiere-LA
vpj-cd: the use #Adempiere-LA
goanookie: hengsin, what about the tracker ?
Ramiro: victor join #adempiere-AL
CarlosRuiz: I think is better to set up a different tracker for Posterita if they want
vpj-cd: yes
CarlosRuiz: and maybe open a new mail list for them too
CarlosRuiz: but meanwhile if you don't want to see posterita trackers :-) you can set the rule in mail :-)
hengsin: category for bug report is too many and it is very annoying that I've no way to filter out the posterita mail, wasting lots of my time.
CarlosRuiz: yes, not category, but a new tracker
AFalcone: Gente, estamos en Adempiere-AL NO LA
AFalcone: Carlos, Victor: #Adempiere-AL es el canal
goanookie: well I beginning to wonder if we should move to bugzilla ?
hengsin: yes, but now sharing the same tracker, there is no 'posterita' in the subject to apply email rules to.
vpj-cd: ok
vpj-cd: the rigth chanell is Adempiere-AL
AFalcone: yes Victor
goanookie: hengsin, I'll create a new category for posterita then and place a request for a mailing list
hengsin: ok
CarlosRuiz: not category Peter, a new tracker
goanookie: I meant tracker
CarlosRuiz: good
CarlosRuiz: thank you very much people
Ramiro ha salido de la sala.
hengsin: bye all\
CarlosRuiz: bye
teo_sarca: bye bye
hengsin ha salido de la sala.
Bahman: Bye all!
Bahman: I have learny a lot of new things :-)
Bahman: learny --> learnt